Home Pastors Pastor Blogs Beyond My Church: A Book Interview with Jason C. Dukes

Beyond My Church: A Book Interview with Jason C. Dukes

I’ve known Jason Dukes for a few years now. A pastor in the Orlando area, Jason and his local congregation focus on being the church, doing life together, and giving themselves away. They emphasize “living sent” – being a letter from God communicating His love and hope in the message of their daily lives among all whom they encounter. As someone who frequently talks and writes on our “sentness,” you can easily see the connection Jason and I share.

In Jason’s new book Beyond My Church, he explores the essentials of church unity and explains how it can become part of the DNA of your local church expression.

Feel free to jump in with questions and comments. Jason will be coming by the blog today to dialogue.

Beyond My Church – lots of places you can go with that title. What’s the premise of the book?

We all have fervently prayed for personal awakening and community revival before, but how fervently have we taken Jesus’ prayer in the Garden for us, His church? He prayed that He had given the same mission to us that had been given to Him, and furthermore for the maturity of our oneness so that the world might believe in Him, the One who was sent. But do we ever prioritize unity as followers of Jesus together in a city, cultivating for the maturity of our oneness (unity) in practical ways? We must. Through our unity around mission, what are normally self-absorbed local churches will put on display the transforming, near love of God so that the people of our communities will see and know the presence and evidence of the sent One, Jesus.

Is this a book that only pastors and paid church leaders can appreciate, or can every follower of Jesus begin to think and live beyond their church, and if so, how?

It is absolutely a book for every follower of Jesus. Two reasons why. First, unfortunately, many pastors live either under the pressure to “grow their church,” which is an extremely anti-biblical thought, or they live stifled by their own insecurities, which creates a sense of competition and distrust between local leaders. Often times, our distinctive understandings of secondary theological ideals hinder pastors’ connection, as well. Thus, it is imperative that every follower of Jesus lead out in cultivating for unity around mission among followers of Jesus in a city, therefore encouraging their pastors to emphasize and prioritize for it. 

This can be done in the very ways that they cultivate for “beyond me” living in their families, among their neighbors, in the marketplace, among leaders in the city where they live, and even in the ways that they think of the church in the city. There is actually one chapter per each of those topics in the book, offering suggestions for how “beyond MY church” thinking and living can be cultivated. We need a vision for “on earth as it is in heaven” in the communities where we live, not a vision for succeeding as individual local churches. And followers of Jesus who make up those local church families can be key catalysts in enabling and allowing their leaders to feel secure to think and live “beyond MY church.” 

You mention in the book that this thinking and living is a must for the local churches of a city in order for the “work of God” to happen in the city where they live. Why do you think that is such an imperative?

Very simply, because the Bible tells me so. In John 17:18-23, Jesus prayed specifically for the maturity of our oneness as His followers SO THAT the world might believe in the One who was sent. Well, in John 6:29, Jesus taught that the work of God is “that you believe in the One that He has sent.” Jesus is praying, then, for the maturity of our oneness so that the work of God might happen. Maybe all of our prayers for personal awakening are being hindered by our lack of praying and prioritizing and cultivating for the maturity of our oneness. Maybe we could live as an answer to Jesus’ prayer and then see the very thing for which we are praying! The work of God might then come alive in our cities in ways we never imagined. This is not easy to surrender to, however, for the consequences could very well threaten the very systems we currently have in American church culture. But those would be worth giving up if the work of God happened in our communities, wouldn’t they?

Specific to pastors and church leaders, give three practical suggestions as to how they can think and live beyond their church in the next month?

• take devoted time in Sunday worship gathering to solely pray for another local church expression and their leaders and their ministries and their fruitfulness.

• allow that “put the interests of others above your own” stuff to also apply to local church expressions, and commit some time every week to working toward the encouragement and success of another local church leader and ministry. 

• put aside petty differences and serve the community together in ongoing, relational ways with no one local church’s name tagged on the project, but rather for the sake of “on earth as it is in heaven” in your community.

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Ed Stetzer, Ph.D., is the Dean of Talbot School of Theology at Biola Univeristy and Scholar in Residence & Teaching Pastor at Mariners Church. He has planted, revitalized, and pastored churches; trained pastors and church planters on six continents; earned two master’s degrees and two doctorates; and has written hundreds of articles and a dozen books. He is Regional Director for Lausanne North America, is the Editor-in-Chief of Outreach Magazine, and regularly writes for news outlets such as USA Today and CNN. Dr. Stetzer is the host of "The Stetzer ChurchLeaders Podcast," and his national radio show, "Ed Stetzer Live," airs Saturdays on Moody Radio and affiliates.