David Capes
This book is in two parts. One is God and the other part is on Revelation. Because without that revelation, it’s hard go back and ask can we really say much about God without some revelation?
Malcolm Yarnell
Most modern evangelical theologies start with revelation before they even address God. And I turned that around and went back to the traditional format of looking at God before we begin to talk about revelation. And it’s because, as you pointed out, we, from our perspective, cannot really divorce revelation from God in himself. For the only way that we know God in himself is if He reveals Himself to us. And so we have to talk about revelation, but we also have to talk about God.
The question is where you start. And I think you can start either way, either with revelation or God. I decided to start with God because I believe there is a God who reveals Himself. He shows Himself to us, that He is real, that he does exist, but he also reveals certain truths about Himself to us. And I wanted to talk about who God is and then talk about revelation. And that goes back to the more traditional format, because in the modern period, questions of what we call epistemology, or how do we know things, the question of revelation became so big. But in some ways, I think we need to go back and recapture the truth of who is it that we know. It’s God. How do we know? Because he reveals himself.
David Capes
Well isn’t that true of every kind of relationship? In other words, if I didn’t know your name, the first thing I’d want to do is ask what is your name. And then, tell me a little bit about yourself. So, in a sense, you and I can become friends only if you choose to reveal yourself, to choose to tell me the stories of your life. Choose to tell me the things that you love and fear, and all those kinds of things. In a sense, any kind of personal relationship is built upon some sense of revelation.
Malcolm Yarnell
Absolutely. But who is revealed? It is a person. And by the way, this truth, this illustration that you just had about one human being speaking of their story to another, is even more true with regard to God. For God is invisible. God is inaccessible to us apart from revelation, and it is a grace that He reveals Himself to us at all.
David Capes
One of the early chapters is about the existence of God. I remember taking a course in Paul Tillich years ago, and one of the phrases that Tillich made famous has to do with this idea of existence, because God doesn’t exist in the sense that a cup of coffee exists. His existence is really the ground of being. It’s not coming into an existence and coming out of, passing out of existence, like everything we know. It really is a different kind of existence.
Malcolm Yarnell
Tillich spoke of a ground of being, or the sea of being. The Apostle put it this way in the book of Acts when he spoke at the Areopagus. So we’re speaking to the ancient Greek university here. But Paul comes, and he refers to God as the One in whom we live and have our being. And so that ought to give us that idea that Tillich picks up, and many other Christian theologians and philosophers have picked up, and that is that God is greater than we are.
I had a professor who used to take a big whiteboard, and he’d go to the very edges of the board and he’d put tick marks, and these tick marks indicated outward movement. And his idea was to show that our knowledge, our view, is very limited, and that God is beyond that view. God is infinite. God is eternal. God is immense. And we do exist in him by reason of his creation and by reason of the fact that he is preserving us even now. God is the greater reality.
And this is true both with regard to time and space. You know, you brought up the existence of God. How do we know that God exists? Ultimately, I think it’s a grace that we know. I do think that God does reveal himself to every human being, his existence in certain aspects of his character, in many ways, at least. This is what Romans chapter 1 brings forward. In the book, I take a moment and dwell upon the idea of the existence of God, and I give seven ways that you could argue for God’s existence. And I’ll be honest with you, I think these are helpful, but really, ultimately, the only way that someone knows
that God exists is because the work of God revealing himself in their lives.
You have the arguments or proofs from causation design. You have proofs from history, from the very fact that human beings are engaged in worship religion, even anti religion, which is a religion itself, is a ubiquitous reality in human existence. All of these things point to the fact that there is a God, the fact that every human society has laws points to a law giver. The fact that there are laws in the way the world works points to the reality of one who has established these laws. And so, I think there is good reason to believe that God exists. And I think the arguments for the existence of God help to tear down walls of ideas that say that there is no God. I think ultimately it requires us, even reason itself requires
us to posit that there is a God, and we have to deal with him so God does exist.
David Capes
Let me just throw out a couple of ideas. Just tease out a little bit about what you’re going to say in the book, because we want people to go out and get this great book. Time and eternity.
Malcolm Yarnell
You know, time and eternity from a modern, Western perspective, is almost impossible for people to think about, because we’re focused on the material and on the temporal, and we’re focused on what is here and now, especially for us Americans. I mean, we don’t have much of a history, and we’re very focused on that which is here now. But to speak of God as eternal and immense is to say that God exceeds the boundaries of our knowledge of time and space. And in some ways, even though I try to make this simple, it is the most difficult concept for human beings to get their mind around. How can God be infinite and yet I am finite.
David Capes
And how is he omnipresent? As we would understand what presence means.
Malcolm Yarnell
So he’s imminent, which means he’s right there with us, closer to us than we are ourselves, and yet he’s far beyond us. That seems to be really difficult for our minds to get the idea of.
David Capes
The Trinity.
Malcolm Yarnell
I think the best ways to describe “the Trinity” is as Scripture describes it. And to go back to the Great Commission. Christians almost universally use the form of baptism, baptism in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. And of course, there’s one name, and the idea of name carries identity. And to say the name of God is to speak God. And yet, there are three names in this. Christ gave us this form of baptism, and that points to reality, that God is one, yet three. Three, yet one. Now we use the language of one substance in three persons. That language is trying to describe something that is beyond the ability of the human mind to contain. But Scripture reveals God is Father and Son and Holy Spirit.
David Capes
It’s so important, the idea of what God is like, and all the language of the aseity of God, the simplicity of God, the personable, immutability of God. So many great parts to this book. I wish we had time to talk about it. But you know what? We’re going to continue the conversation tomorrow, and we’re going to record another podcast, looking not so much at this side, at the God side, but looking more at the revelation side. I want to say thanks to for being with us today on The Stone Chapel Podcast. Dr. Malcolm Yarnell.
Malcolm Yarnell
Thank you for having me, David.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
