Ed Stetzer
I just did this presentation in Seattle, and we had a wonderful day. We had hundreds of pastors from the area. We’re actually launching extension sites in a lot of these places. And then that night, I spoke at the church, and shared the information. Don’t think that it’s just for pastors and church leaders. This is data that’s impacting all of us. The culture is kind of on fire. Many people are seeing failures of modernity. I was just on News Nation, that national cable show, and they were focused on Gen Z men. The anchor asked, why do you think this is the case. Why are people more interested in religion? I said, because they’re seeing that the promises of modernity have failed them.
Regardless of what you feel about the election [of President Trump] or what you feel about the economy, you’ve got to acknowledge the world is in global crisis right now. I just came from Indonesia. They actually have a hashtag #IndonesiaGelap, which means Indonesia darkness. By the time this [podcast] airs, I’ll actually be in the UK teaching, and people are saying that the UK is in trouble. And simultaneously, we have a brand new study that we’ll unpack when we’re there at the Lanier Library about this. The UK is in trouble, and young men are turning to faith. So, there’s actually a study that came out from the Bible Society, the UK Bible study. It’s called the British and Foreign Bible Society and they did the study with YouGov. YouGov, is a respected polling firm, and they actually had the boldness to call it a “quiet revival.” There was so much shift in the data. They’re starting at a lower level,
but they called it “the quiet revival”, driven by young people, and particularly young men.
I’m actually teaching next week on this topic. I have a course called “Christianity and Contemporary Culture,” and I had to change my notes because of the data that came out a month and a half ago in the UK. David, this is a crazy time. This is why I love that we’re talking about the state of the church and God’s providence. I get to go around telling pastors and leaders. For 20 years I’ve been doing this, and I’ve been telling people, it’s a slow decline. Here are the challenges. But now this is one of the most opportune moments of our lifetime. We should seize that moment.
David Capes
I know, we need to do it. And you’re one of the best guys I know in the world to do this, to announce it. You’ve got quite a team that’s coming. I’m super excited. Nicole Martin is coming back next year to do a talk for us in 2026. I’m looking forward to having her back, because she’s been here for a panel discussion a few years ago. The bottom line is, you’re going to be here, you’re going to be sharing some great news about the state of the church, not just for church leaders, but for people who are interested. Because this is a cultural moment, as you said, that’s impacting us all.
Ed Stetzer
Yes, it’s unlike anything we’ve seen in our lifetime. The last time we saw the turbulence, the topsy turvy religion data was probably in the late 1960s, early 1970s, when the world was on fire last time. So there is a correlation. There’s a correlation between convoluted times and gospel opportunity. And I think we want to seize that opportunity. I want to be a part of helping prepare Christians and church leaders to do that very thing. Now, mind you, we can’t miss the context. There’s been 30 years of year-by-year decline. For 30 years, there’s been 1% less people identify as Christian, 1% less Christian, 1% less Christian. And the fact that this has plateaued, and some groups people are returning, doesn’t really mean that things are back where they were 30 years ago. I’m hoping it’s the beginning of something.
In the talk, I’ll describe the state of the culture in the church in three words, disrupted, precarious, and opportune. Because it’s disrupted. That’s obviously what’s going on. It’s precarious. David, you and I have seen a lot of Christians, a lot of churches lose their way the last few years. They get caught up in other faiths and to the left and to the right. And instead of being driven by the good news of the Gospel, sharing their faith, discipling believers, planting churches, global missions, they’re now caught up in “isms”.
They’ve been discipled by their cable news choices. They’ve been spiritually shaped by their social media. And so, it’s precarious. It’s corrupted, precarious. And then the third is, it’s opportune. I don’t want to look back five years from now and say the church didn’t step up, stand out, stand in the gap, and show and share the love of Jesus. That’s the encouragement that I’ll bring. We’ve got a lot of charts that help us to get there, and a lot of Bible that helps us to understand the moment.
David Capes
As you were speaking, I was reminded that I am a child of the Jesus Revolution movement back in the 1970s and 1980s, because a lot of things were happening back then. That was on the tail end of Vietnam [War], the civil rights movement, the assassination of presidents and people like Martin Luther King Jr, as well as Bobby Kennedy. That was a very disrupted time. That became an opportune moment for people to turn back to the gospel. And I’ve met so many people along the way of my life and you probably have too, who came to faith during the Jesus movement itself.
Ed Stetzer
Yes, 20 to 30 million people, according to Donald Miller, a scholar at USC who recently retired. 20 to 30 million people trace their spiritual heritage to the Jesus People movement. Let’s look at that for just a second. History doesn’t repeat itself, but it tends to rhyme. 1968 you’ve already mentioned. May 4, 1968, Martin Luther King was assassinated. Bobby Kennedy was assassinated that year. There were widespread protests around the Vietnam War, around the civil rights movement. Now think of 2020. I think we’re in the 51st month of 2020! It’s been this whole tumult and turbulence for the last several years. There were huge protests and riots in 1968. There were riots in 2020. And here’s one thing that people forget. There was a pandemic in 1968 too. Your parents would have called it the Hong Kong flu. Remember that?
Think about all that in 1968 and think about that in 2020-2025. I’m recording this from Southern California, and about 10 miles from where I am right now, a pastor said to his daughter, I want to meet a hippie. And the daughter brings up a hippie. He loves Jesus. He’s got a complicated story. And what we call the Jesus Revolution begins when Chuck Smith and Lonnie Frisbee start the Bible study. And then dozens, hundreds, thousands, 20 to 30 million people, including David Capes are influenced. But you know all that started when the world was on fire.
And I think we can acknowledge that causes people to look for things. Sometimes terrible things like, I mentioned young men with Andrew Tate. But it also is an opportunity. I don’t want to just give you stats when we’re together in the Lanier Library. I just don’t want to give you stats and charts. I want to also explain the gospel opportunity that’s before us and how we navigate that. How do we not end up getting side-tracked? Paul writes about the Galatians being “bewitched.” How do we not end up bewitched and distracted from our gospel mission in the midst of the cultural convulsion we’re walking through?
David Capes
You’re right when you say there are a lot of “isms” out there that we have gravitated to rather than the gospel, and we’ve got to get back to the gospel itself. I don’t know of anybody better to lead the way, at the “Lead the Way” tour than you and these other folks that are coming. David Kinnaman, John Plake and Nicole Martin. It’s going to be an exciting time. Ed, I’m so grateful. You are going to Albania and the UK after that, and I’m excited for you to have those opportunities to speak broadly.
Ed Stetzer
I appreciate you, brother, and I miss hanging out with you more. We need to start some theological education opportunities together there in Houston, in addition to the wonderful ones you already have.
David Capes
We’ve got some great things already going, but we’re looking to do more. We’ve got some great facilities, and great resources. We just want to use them for the sake of the kingdom.
Ed Stetzer
If people don’t know, the Lanier Theological Library is like crazy, and now has a partner campus just north of Oxford, called Yarnton Manor. I’ll be staying at Yarnton Manor for two weeks while teaching at Oxford. So, I’m still thankful for the Lanier focus. For Mark himself, but also the Lanier Theological Library and all that you’re doing. And if people haven’t been there, they should. It’s pretty amazing.
David Capes
Yes, we’re going to have a great time, and we’re going to hopefully inspire another quiet revival. All right, brother, have a great trip. See you soon.
Ed Stetzer
Bye, Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
