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You can find previous episodes of “The Stone Chapel Podcast” at Lanier Theological Library.
“The Stone Chapel Podcast” is part of the ChurchLeaders Podcast Network.
This episode has been edited for clarity and space.
Jennifer Houston McNeel
Hi. My name is Jennifer Houston McNeel, and I’m a New Testament professor at the St. Mary’s Ecumenical Institute in Baltimore, Maryland.
David Capes
Dr. Jennifer Houston McNeel, good to see you. Welcome to The Stone Chapel Podcast.
Jennifer Houston McNeel
Thank you very much for having me.
David Capes
You’ve written a terrific book called, “Under Her Wings: Mothers and Motherhood in the New Testament.” We’re going to talk about that in a minute. But before we do that, I want people to get a sense of who you are. For those who don’t know, who is Jennifer Houston McNeil?
Jennifer Houston McNeel
Thank you. I teach New Testament in Baltimore, Maryland at the St Mary’s Ecumenical Institute, which is part of St. Mary’s Seminary. It is the oldest Roman Catholic seminary in the United States. But I teach in the ecumenical Institute Division of the school. I teach students who come from a whole variety of Christian denominations and traditions, almost all of them that you could think of come to the school. So it’s a really rich, diverse learning environment to be part of, and we practice our civil conversations with each other even when we disagree.
David Capes
And there’s probably a lot of disagreement in that group, I would imagine.
Jennifer Houston McNeel
There is, but it works anyway. People come there knowing that they’re going to be learning alongside of people who come from different backgrounds than they do, and so they’re eager to have that experience.
David Capes
Well, Mike Gorman is a colleague of yours, and he’s a friend of ours. He’s been here to the library. Because I’m a Pauline guy, and I’ve studied Paul, I’ve read a lot with Gorman over the years, and he’s spoken highly about the school. I didn’t know much about it until he went there, but it’s good to have your connection to it now as well. Are you from Maryland originally?
Jennifer Houston McNeel
I am. I grew up in Annapolis, and I live in Columbia, Maryland now.
David Capes
Okay, you do a lot of commuting.
Jennifer Houston McNeel
Yes, it’s only about half an hour, so it’s not too bad. I don’t go in every day.
David Capes
Well, I’m just delighted to have this opportunity to talk about your book, because I think it’s an important book. It’s a good book. It’s the kind of book that I think New Testament scholars, and also pastors and church leaders will find refreshing. And really, anybody that’s wanting to engage scripture deeply and significantly. “Under Her Wings, Mothers and Motherhood in the New Testament.” What’s the big idea of your book Jennifer?
Jennifer Houston McNeel
I think the big idea is twofold. First of all, as I studied all the passages in the New Testament that either have mothers in them or have maternal themes in them, I noticed certain themes recurring over and over again. Whenever mothers or maternal images appear, there tends to be certain themes that appear, and so I took note of those and talk about them, especially in the conclusion of the book.
The second part of the big idea, though, is that when we study these themes, we discover that motherhood in the New Testament is not just a peripheral idea to the New Testament, but it’s actually related to the heart of the gospel message that the New Testament authors are trying to share with us. For instance, God is described as birthing and breastfeeding us. Jesus describes himself in maternal terms. Church leaders are described as being mothers to their communities. These are all really central ideas to the message of the New Testament that’s explored and expressed through maternal language.
David Capes
When I was reading early in the book, I was struck by two things, how different motherhood was then and, how similar it is to today as well. There’s a similarity to mothers and motherhood in the ancient world to what’s going on today. And there’s also great differences as well.
Jennifer Houston McNeel
That’s right. Of course, we’re all human beings. We share a lot of things in common, a lot of experiences and emotions we share in common with the people who lived 2,000 years ago. But you have to also remember that it’s a very different time and a very different culture that they lived in. The social systems were different in terms of the ancient Roman patriarchal systems that governed women’s lives, as well as medical understandings and understandings of the body, being different at that time. Which leads to differences in how motherhood is viewed and experienced.
David Capes
There was at that time, a sense in which women were seen as deficient in some ways. I mean, in the ancient world, women were thought to be inferior to men. So women had a way to go because they started with a deficit. But the gospel itself seems to me to be doing something for mothers and motherhood. Would you agree with that?
Jennifer Houston McNeel
It’s very interesting to me how we have maternal language expressed by such a variety of people in the New Testament. Jesus talks about himself as a mother hen. Paul talks about himself as a mother. So we have these male figures in the New Testament using maternal language. I do think that has the potential, I guess I should say, to draw mothers into the story and say, this story is in some way relevant to me. These theological meanings are in some way relevant to me. The whole breadth of human experience really is, is incorporated into this gospel message about Jesus.
David Capes
It seems to me, too, the gospel is elevating women in general and putting them on a little different stance than they had before. Actually a lot different stance than they had before. And I love that passage in Acts where Peter says about Pentecost, this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. In the last days, your sons and daughters will prophesy. And that seems to me to be one of those places where we’re keyed into the fact that when the gospel takes root, it is insistently improving the lives and the fortunes of people who are marginalized, who are suffering, who are in in second place, as it were.
