00:14:29
I want to say I don’t think it is overly complicated, the Gospel of Jesus. I’ve made it my life mission, if you will. I have such a desire for it. I read the Book of Acts or I hear of what the Gospel seed is accomplishing in other cultures and contexts around the world, and I have a jealousy for it, for Germany, because I see the barrenness in my land and I am aching for it to come to life again spiritually for the Gospel. I don’t think the Gospel seed has lost its power.
00:15:09
The soil is harder. So we need to maybe ask the Holy Spirit to help us prepare the soil. But I’m longing to see, and I think we get to see some evidence of it. Not crazy in terms of numbers, but we get to see. Maybe not yet, but in the lives of the individual, it is new life.
00:15:25
Praise the Lord. What a miracle. So yeah, it used to be that the churches that I refer to, the big cathedrals, they were full with worshippers on a Sunday. But now Germany has moved from Christian to post Christian, which means we’ve lost the influence with churches move to the margin. Some people say Berlin is the atheist capital of the world. 00:15:46
I don’t even know if that’s true. I think it’s maybe the most agnostic city and there are people like faith is just not a question. So everybody worships and everybody has faith because that’s just the way the human psyche and soul is wired.
00:16:34
So for the agnostic, they have faith that they don’t know for those of you. So the word agnostic means not to know. So like, I don’t know if there’s a God. I don’t know. But that’s still an act of faith.
00:16:45
That’s still an act of worship. You’re worshiping something. Worship is where you find what you think is love, identity, worth and purpose. So my question is, where do Germans find what they think is ultimate love, identity, worth and purpose? Where are they finding it at or trying to.
00:17:06
There’s probably, you know, there’s 80 million Germans. There’s probably 80 million answers to it. I do think Germany is now much more alike what the culture or what society was like for the early church in terms of. It’s very pluralistic, just like the Roman Empire was very pluralistic. People had all kinds of Gods that they went to, to worship to get identity and life and hope from.
00:17:28
And so just, I think that’s true. But people are done with church or institutional church that they’ve done with it. Been disappointed too much scandals, you know, and also, I think Germans, by and large, we distrust. That’s also because of our history. We’re more distrusting now of people telling us what to think and what to believe.
00:17:49
We’ve been down the road with that when Hitler and Goebbels brainwashed a whole nation. And I think since then, there’s just been a bit of a suspicion with ideologies and worldviews. So everybody’s like, hey, you figure out your own thing and just leave me alone with it. I think what you said is really important. And here in America, a lot of Christians don’t do well with the ugly past.
00:18:15
You know, our ugly past is what happened to Native Americans, the enslavement of black image bearers. Here in America, pastors say, well, let’s don’t talk about that. But if you don’t talk about it and understand it, you don’t understand how we got to where we are. And if history is doomed to repeat itself if we don’t acknowledge it, and more not stay stuck there, but realize this is how we got to where we are. Why do you feel freedom as a German pastor, to be honest about the atrocities and how it shaped to where Germany is now?
00:18:53
Well, I would say this. I think it takes a certain amount of pride to deny yourself repentance in the sense of, I think every person has a broken identity, even Americans do, Germans do. Every person has a broken sexuality, whether you are gay or straight. We all have a broken sexuality. We all have a broken identity.
00:19:22
I might say that we all have a broken ancestry. We all have a broken ethnicity. To assume I don’t have anything that I need to deal with at the cross. That’s pride. To me. 00:19:39
And I think for us, as Germans, our history is quite obvious to us, especially in Berlin. If you’ve been in Berlin, we walk through the streets and the recent history of the city just screams at you from the buildings. It would be quite arrogant to say, like, yeah, we’ve got nothing to deal with here that we need to repent of. And you know what’s interesting? As I listened to you speak, you seamlessly took personal responsibility, but also national responsibility, which is very biblical.
00:20:12
When you look at, say, Nehemiah, when he built the wall, he confessed his personal sin, but also the national sin, not that he did it himself. And a lot of American Christians really struggle with understanding the systemic part of it, that you don’t have to do it to be mournful of what took place or to repent that it took place. And I think that’s a very healthy spiritual formation, rhythm of grace to go, you know what? I personally may not have done that, but I’ve benefited from that. So what’s your church’s strategy, Mosaik Berlin?
00:20:53
What’s your strategy to equip your congregation, to live on mission, to reach this post- Christian culture? Good. Very timely question because we’re just about to launch a new initiative. We call it that. We call a discipleship pathway a three-year pathway.
00:21:16
We’ve asked, I was actually, I was on a Zoom call with a guy in New York, John Tyson. I think you know him as well. And he, in a side comment, he asked a question that says, in all the right ways, it haunted me ever since then. He said, oh, every leader has to figure out what is it I’m trying to reproduce. And then he came with this conversation.
00:21:33
It’s like, oh, I don’t think I’m actually being intentional about what is it we’re trying to reproduce here. So someone who’s part of Mosaik, what is it we want him to not just know, but do and live and what life changed in his heart and his soul. What do we want to see happening in him or in her? Like, over the course of three years, that seems to be the Jesus thing. Three years.
00:21:57
And so we’re now trying to roll out this discipleship pathway of just different workshops, retreats and seminars and books to read. And so it’s like, hey, we really want to be on a journey together. So that after three years, here’s someone who can boldly share their faith, someone who understood generosity, someone who understands the cross, someone who can do intercession. Like it just maybe the one on one of what it means to follow Jesus. I realize we can’t just assume that people picked us up just because they come to a church service.
00:22:29
Even if they’ve been there for years, they can be quite faithful in their attendance and be baby Christians. So we want to be more intentional about it. So I wish I could say, here is what we are doing. It’s more we see the need and we want to do something about it. Yeah, absolutely.
00:22:43
And I mean, you’ve been a lead pastor for four years, and so it takes time to learn the people, learn the culture, and develop, and we’re always learning here at Transformation Church. A couple of ending questions. One is, what would you say to American Christians that they can do better?
00:23:04
Oh, man. Can I just be bold? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 100%.
00:23:13
In Germany or in Europe, we watch American pastors because you guys are really good at broadcasting and. Yeah, just getting the word out there. And I’ve noticed a lot of times, if you’re saying America is changing and becoming more post-Christian, I think a lot of American pastors probably should wake up and not assume that the people in their pews know the Gospel. You really. You gotta be bold to preach the Gospel that’s maybe so, like, basic, but it’s.
00:23:51
I hear a lot of, like, self help talk and just good psychology, and I’m sure there’s truth in it, but the powers in the Gospel and. Yeah, and if there is a growing percentage of the population who does not know who Jesus is and what he has done for us on the cross, please, please tell them before the whole nation becomes post-Christian and you got to start again from scratch. Amen. Well, you’re speaking our language, Dave, because what we like to say here at transformation church is we want the pulpit to be bloody. It is unabashedly about Jesus, what Jesus has done, the endless treasures of his grace, because you can get good advice anywhere.
00:24:37
But the local church should be the place where Jesus is the highlight of the story. It’s easy to draw a crowd in America with pop psychology and prosperity Gospel stuff. But that’s how a nation becomes post-Christian. As pastors who lead Jesus’s church, stop preaching Jesus.
00:24:55
Exhibit a. I want to throw something right now because it just infuriates me. And then sadly, you have a whole generation of people who think that following Jesus is, He’s a divine butler to help them accomplish their dreams instead of recognizing, no, He’s the king of kings. And through His life, death, resurrection and ascension, descendant of the. By faith, we enter into His kingdom.
00:25:22
So His life, His mission, His purpose, His grace can be displayed in us and through us. If a lot more pastors preach that, their churches would be smaller, but you would have more people who actually know the Gospel. And on the back end, you won’t see a nation slip. So a lot of times people go, what’s happening? Is it the pagans?
00:25:43
I’m like, no, it’s the pastors. It’s the teachers and leaders of the church that they have jettisoned Jesus and the Gospel for pop psychology and this prosperity nonsense. Yeah, I’m really passionate about that. So, man, continue to do that. How can we pray for you?
00:26:01
Cause rumor has it that someone came to preach at your church and was like, you need to go to a third service. Yeah. Yeah. And so rumor has it you guys are perhaps getting ready to launch another gathering in a city close to Berlin. So how can we pray for you.
00:26:21
Concerning that would be so great if you can pray for that. So there’s a city right next to Berlin. It’s almost like a small sister of Berlin called Potsdam, where quite a number of our members already commute in. It’s about an hour’s drive from them to come to church. And I love their commitment, but they will never be able to bring their friends.
00:26:40
And Potsdam is quite unchurched, by and large. There’s a few congregations there, but not many. And we feel that maybe God has a work for us there. And so we are planning this summer to launch our first extension in Potsdam, which is very exciting. We also do need to do a third service eventually.
00:26:58
It’s just about okay, you know, stewarding manpower and resources at the moment. So we feel like we should do this first and then do the third service eventually when we get to it. Yeah, that would be great. Let’s pray for open doors and open hearts in Potsdam for people to come know Jesus right. Right now.
00:27:14
And for all of our listeners, I want you to join me in praying. Let’s pray. Father, in the name of Jesus, the name that is above all names, the king of glory, the great. I am the alpha, the omega, the first and the last. The one who conquered sin, death and evil.
00:27:26
It is in his name and through the Holy Spirit’s power that we lift up. Pastor Dave, to you in Mosaik, Berlin, we lift up this Potsdam location, that you would bless it, that those who are far from Christ would just be attracted to the believers, attracted to the message, and they would just fill this new place and then be sent, that they would be filled to be sent into the world. And we lift up Mosaik Berlin, that you would continue to bless it, that it would be a heavenly colony on earth. Bless Dave and Jenny, his lovely wife. Bless them with energy and vitality and to delight in Jesus.
00:28:02
Keep your hand on their children, that their children would walk with you and that you would do incredible things in them and through them for your glory. And I thank you for my friend Dave and just continue to be a blessing Lord. And we pray for all of Germany that there would be revival, that pulpits would ring the glories of Christ. And we pray for America that pulpits would be bloody with the lamb of God, that he would be central, he would be the showcase, he would be the highlight. May we be a part of it, Lord, in your name, we pray.
00:28:37
Amen. Amen. Well guys, check this out. I want you to marinate on that. When the church is transformed, the world will be transformed.
QUOTES
I think a lot of American pastors probably should wake up and not assume that the people in their pews know the Gospel. You’ve really got to be bold to preach the Gospel that’s maybe so, like, basic, but it’s… I hear a lot of, like, self-help talk and just good psychology, and I’m sure there’s truth in it, but the power’s in the Gospel. -Pastor Dave Schnitter
When the church is transformed, the world will be transformed. -Dr. Derwin L. Gray
The powers in the Gospel. If there is a growing percentage of the population who does not know who Jesus is and what He has done for us on the cross, please, please tell them before the whole nation becomes post-Christian, and you have to start again from scratch. -Pastor Dave Schnitter
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