On his new “Lights On” podcast, former Hillsong New York Pastor Carl Lentz spoke this week to Mike Todd, pastor of Transformation Church near Tulsa, Oklahoma. Lentz and his family landed at Transformation following Carl’s extramarital affair, which led to his dismissal from Hillsong in 2020.
The Aug. 14 episode was an “unfiltered conversation” between Lentz and Todd, with occasional comments from Laura Lentz, Carl’s wife. Despite talking for almost two hours, the men said they didn’t even get to any of their planned topics.
RELATED: ‘I’m No Longer in Ministry’— Carl Lentz Clarifies New Position at Transformation Church
Instead, they recapped how Todd and Transformation Church embraced the Lentz family, how church leaders can prepare to shepherd people in pain, the nature of modern-day ministry, and some fine points of submission and restoration.
Mike Todd on Protecting the Lentz Family ‘Cocoon’
Carl Lentz said he and Laura want to feature people who’ve changed the couple’s lives, telling Todd, “It has to start with you.” After the scandal at Hillsong, the Lentz family initially went to Florida to regroup for about a year. Then Todd invited them to visit Transformation, which Carl Lentz described as “a giant hug.”
Lentz thanked Todd for wanting to “run into this fire and the effect of it on my family,” calling the Oklahoma pastor “a spectacular human.” Although Lentz was concerned that Todd would catch “heat” from associating with a fallen pastor, Todd said he was ready for what has turned out to be an authentic, vulnerable process.
“It almost feels like a cocoon because it’s like I was allowed into something while y’all were becoming something else,” Todd told the couple. “I had the honor of protecting that cocoon from not being penetrated by anything while you were becoming…and still [are] becoming what [God has] already destined.”
