David Capes
To talk about it, about the oneness of God. At the same time, have a trinity.
George Kalantzis
So what is one? What is three? How do they relate? Does God the Father have a son, produce a son? That’s not a novel idea for the Greeks and the Romans. All their gods are born. They have mothers and fathers. So is that who he is? And if the father birthed the son, who’s the mother? Of course, here we have to talk about Mary. So that basic doctrinal definition, when we come and say, I want to be part of the community, and we say, great, this is what we believe. This is what we believe, and this is what you’re going to be baptized into. “I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.” What does that mean? And if all things have been created by him, by the father, then what about Jesus, or the Holy Spirit. So basic definitions, that’s going to preoccupy the bulk of our time on the second day.
The same person who came over and said, I want to be part of this community, we say this is what we believe? But we don’t stop there. We also say, and this is how we live our life, which is the fifth part. Which is what are the patterns of spiritual and moral life that Christians had in the same letter, letter 96, Pliny to the Emperor Trajan.
Pliny says this is the total sum of their worship. Remember, this is a pagan speaking right, trying to get it right. But he’s a pagan. He has no idea who the Christians are. It’s the first time he meets Christians. He says they gather on a specific day, early in the morning, they pray antiphonally with one another, in other words, back and forth, back and forth from the Psalms, basically. Then they take an oath with one another, to not commit adultery, to not commit murder, do not commit theft, to return a deposit. Then they go away, and at the end of the day, they gather together again for a common, ordinary meal. Can you imagine if our Sunday services ended with an oath? You turn to your neighbor and you take an oath. Like, this week, this is how I’m going to live my life.
David Capes
I’m not going to murder.
George Kalantzis
I’m not going to commit adultery. We will be having a different kind of discussion.
David Capes
It’d be a different kind of service.
George Kalantzis
So how do these patterns develop? How many times a day do you pray as Christians? What days do you fast? Why do Christians fast on Wednesday and Friday? Good question. Because we’re not Jews who fast on Monday and Thursday. It’s community formative. Rituals are community formative.
David Capes
These are the things that we do that set us apart from other people.
George Kalantzis
A simple thing that Christians did from early on, was to cross themselves. You make the sign of the cross. We don’t do it, or at least Protestants don’t do it. But Christians did because they marked themselves in public. You cross yourself in view of others, right across yourself. Others see you.
David Capes
It’s not something you do in private.
George Kalantzis
That’s right. You don’t do it in private only. You do it in public and people see you. And that has consequence in the late third century.
So we’ll come all the way up to there and see the transformation. We’ll close with the transformation of the Roman world from a pagan world to a Christian world.
David Capes
Where Christianity does become legal at that point.
George Kalantzis
That’s right. It becomes tolerated. It becomes legal, and it becomes the only within the span of 120 years.
David Capes
Which, in historical terms, is very fast. Now, persecution seems to have been an important part of the history. You’re going to be addressing throughout.
George Kalantzis
That’s in the break with Judaism, the response to the Roman world. There are reasons for the persecution. Persecution is not “because I don’t like you”. They are accusations. Christians are accused of being seditious traitors because they don’t take an oath. They don’t pledge allegiance to the Roman state and to the Roman emperor, pure military state, like the Romans are. How do you respond to people who do not pledge allegiance to the Caesar.
David Capes
Or do they want to serve in a military? That became a problem as well.
George Kalantzis
That became a problem, especially when Christians are recognized or claimed to not be Jews. Because Jews were exempted from military service for religious reasons. But that was almost 200 years before. It has a long tradition in the Roman world. But you, your group, your people, say you’re not Jews, so you’re not covered by the exemptions of the Jews.
David Capes
History is just messy, the birth of the Christian church in Palestine in the first century, and then its growth in the next 500 years. It’s just really phenomenal to see the expansion of it but also the things that have to take place in order for it to become a religion that is tolerated and then eventually favored, in the Roman world.
George Kalantzis
Christianity, did not grow by leaps and bounds. For the first almost 250 years, Christianity was roughly around 2% [of the population of the Roman empire].
David Capes
Of the Roman, of the Roman population.
George Kalantzis
Yes. And then it starts reaching into the sociologically important 10% and then by the end of the third century, it reaches roughly in the mid 20%.
David Capes
By then, they’re formidable.
George Kalantzis
They’re a formidable group politically. Because if a group that is 2% or less of the population, you don’t know anyone in that group. 2% of 100 people that you meet on the street.
David Capes
Maybe two in 100.
George Kalantzis
Maybe two, yes. And how do you recognize them? But at10% you think wait a minute. I know some of these people.
David Capes
Yes, I’ve met them. I think I work with one or two of them.
George Kalantzis
When they reach 25%, they live in your neighborhood. So now you pay attention. So how does that work? The other accusation was that they were atheists, and that is not just simply that Zeus in your heart. For the Romans, the relationship with the gods is sacred and pragmatic. It matters if the gods are turning against you as a person, as a city, as a province, as an empire. You’re done for.
David Capes
Calamity is coming.
George Kalantzis
Calamity is coming. Now flip the equation. When calamity comes. Why does it come? And everybody’s thoughts turn.
David Capes
We have 10% of the people who are Christians, and they’re really messing all of us up.
George Kalantzis
That’s right. So, their atheism puts all of us in danger.
David Capes
But the word atheos doesn’t mean what we mean by it.
George Kalantzis
It means that they don’t worship our gods. They don’t give honor to our gods. Romans don’t care if Jesus is in your heart, or Zeus is in your heart, or nobody’s in your heart. They just don’t care. What they care is that each one of us acts in public according to the rituals of Roman religion.
David Capes
And that ensures the safety of the city and all the people. I’m really fascinated by what we’re going to be doing tonight. I appreciate you coming all this way and sharing with us a little of what, what you know.
George Kalantzis
We’re basically doing 16 weeks in five hours.
David Capes
Okay, let’s see how quickly you can talk and we can listen to George Kalantzis, thanks for being with us today on “The Stone Chapel Podcast.”
George Kalantzis
My pleasure. Thank you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
