David Capes
So, in your in this reconstruction, they all have leprosy, or, as you said, Hanson’s disease?
Ben Witherington III
Just Lazarus and the father, Simon. Not the sisters. You have to wonder why in the world would Mark tell us that this happened in the house of Simon the leper. There has to be a reason. Why the connection between them? Well, it’s a house in Bethany and Mary, Martha, & Lazarus are there. So why not? That’s another interesting little detail.
But if you follow the beloved disciple in chapter 12, chapter 13, on and on and on. You realize this is a Judean disciple. For example, when Peter and the beloved disciple or the other disciple, and by the way, the reason he’s called the other disciple is because he’s the leader of the Judean disciples, as Peter is the leader of the Galilean disciples, they go to the house of Annas, the chief priest. And what happens there? Immediately, the beloved disciple is recognized by the doorkeeper, the servant, and he lets him in. As for Peter, he’s outside warming his hands by the charcoal fire. They don’t know him from Adam’s house cat. They don’t know him at all.
And so when you start tracking this, you see that, in fact, the beloved disciple is a well-known Judean. I mean, the Jewish authorities were present at his funeral [before Jesus raised him]. That’s another important point. Almost all of the references to the phrase “the Jews” in the Gospel of John is not Jews in general. It’s the Jewish authorities who object to Jesus. And you can demonstrate this over and over again. The only real exception to that is in John 4, when Jesus is having a common discussion with the Samaritan woman, and she says, Jews don’t drink out of a common cup with Samaritans. Well, that’s a general comment about Jews in general and Samaritans in general. But elsewhere in the Gospel of
John, the Jews are the Jewish authorities.
So important footnote, this Gospel is not antisemitic. It is not critiquing Judaism in general or Jews in general. The truth of the matter the Jewish officials were divided. Josephus and Nicodemus both thought Jesus was not only interesting, but promising, and in the Gospel of John Joseph of Arimathea is said to be a secret follower of Jesus. In fact, there are even members of the Sanhedrin that think Jesus is okay, and maybe the Messiah. But there were these other Jewish officials, who thought otherwise.
Now here’s one of the most interesting “ah ha” moments, John 13. Compare John 13 to John 12. In John 12, Jesus is reclining on a couch with the beloved disciple, who’s feeling fine now that Jesus has raised Him from the dead. I would like to have been at that dinner. I mean, it must have been an awkward conversation. Well, Lazarus, what did you see when you were on the other side? It couldn’t have been Jesus, because he was here with us. What did you see? That would have been an interesting conversation. What’s interesting about that is you have Mary anointing Jesus’s feet with Chanel Number 5, you know pistikes nard. The most expensive perfume known then in Judea. Okay, the very next chapter, chapter 13, we hear again, and Jesus reclined with the beloved disciple. And
guess what happens? Another foot adventure, the foot washing. We have foot washing in chapter 13. What you don’t have in John 13 is any reference to The Last Supper. You don’t have “this is my body”. “This is my blood.” You don’t have any of that at all. And if you look at the time reference at the top of John 12 and then John 13, both of them say, before the festival began. Hello!
So I’m saying John 13 is yet another meal in the house of Lazarus and Mary and Martha. And the reason I say that is because the normal custom is the chief guest reclines on the couch with the host. Who’s that? That’s the beloved disciple. That’s the beloved disciple. So we have those two chapters, and what we don’t have is a record of the Last Supper in the Gospel of John. It nowhere appears. Why? Because the beloved disciple wasn’t there. It was just Jesus and the Galilean 12 at the Last Supper. But he may have arranged for them to have a meal within the old city walls. The normal procedure was that you find an upper room in the old city walls and you have a Passover meal. And they did. That would be Thursday night. So I’m saying Monday night at Lazarus house. Tuesday night at Lazarus house. Later in the week, the Last Supper, but the beloved disciple was not there. Jesus
met privately with the 12. That’s what happened.
David Capes
Any idea why he may not have been there?
Ben Witherington III
Well, I think it’s because Jesus wanted to have closure with the 12. I think that’s the bottom line. But here’s the other interesting part to this. This is where Luke comes in. As you know, Mary and Martha show up prominently in Luke 10:28-32. Jesus has a meal with them in the house in Bethany. Did you notice that at the beginning of that story, it says, Jesus and the disciples came to Bethany. Guess what? The only person who went into the house was Jesus. Why? The disciples had heard about Simon, the leper. They’d heard that people get sick when they go into this house, and they were not going into that house. But Jesus was never afraid of uncleanness or disease. He was never afraid of that.
Indeed, the opposite. Whenever he came in contact with those things, He healed people, he helped people. And the portrayal of Mary and Martha in Luke 10 and in John 11 are identical. Martha’s outgoing, she’s vociferous about her opinions. Mary is in both stories. She’s at Jesus’s feet, listening and hardly saying a word. And that’s exactly what happens in John 11 as well. Martha rushes out to meet Jesus when they say he’s coming. And she says, Lord, if you’d been here, my brother would not have died. Well, that’s kind of direct! Imagine saying that to the Messiah. Really Martha? Come on!
David Capes
They must have been close. You don’t talk that way to just anyone.
Ben Witherington III
Absolutely, absolutely. And Jesus loved them all. One thing I just noticed the other day was in Luke 24. Notice how Luke 24 ends. Jesus goes down the Mount of Olives to Bethany to say goodbye to the disciples. Hello. That means the Galilean disciples and the Judean disciples were together in Bethany, and Jesus says, I’m out of here. Well, that’s really interesting. Why Bethany? Well, that’s because that’s where the Judean disciples met. And so, when you begin to put all these pieces together, it makes enormous sense of the story.
David Capes
That’s a really interesting argument, putting it all together.
Ben Witherington III
Well, here’s the other part. The synoptics say that the 12 were not at the cross, according to the story of the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus says, let these other ones go, speaking of the 11. Not Judas. And they all ran for their lives. Now they’re not at the cross. We have the beloved disciple at the cross. We have Mary, the mother of Jesus, at the cross, and we have two other Mary’s. So you have Mary, Mary, Mary and Lazarus, whose real name is Eleazar. The Hebrew name is Eleazar, which interestingly means “God helps”. God helps.
But here’s the thing, what does Jesus do from the cross only in the Gospel of John? He said, “Woman, behold your son, son, behold your mother”. This is the only person Jesus ever calls his son. I mean, wow. And then it says, parenthesis, and from then on, the beloved disciple took Mary into his house. Well, now guess what? Where was she at Pentecost. She was in Jerusalem in the upper room, praying for the coming of the Holy Spirit in Acts 1:14. She just stayed in Jerusalem in Bethany with those two girls and Lazarus, until Pentecost showed up. It makes enormous sense of the whole story.
And so, it’s exciting. After Jesus rises from the dead, and the women go and say, He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today, and the men say, Nah, not so much. That just women’s fantasies. Except for Peter and the beloved disciple. And they’re saying WHAT! And then they run to the tomb. They’re the only two that run to the tomb. And the beloved disciple gets there first. Why? Because he lives in Jerusalem. He knows Joseph of Arimathea, and he knows where his tomb is. They both get there. Peter goes into the tomb, sees the rolled up grave clothes, and goes, Huh? I’m going to have to think about this. After that, the beloved disciple goes in, sees the rolled up grave clothes and says, I’ve seen this movie before. It happened to me. And then the comment, which is astounding, is “the beloved
disciple believed on the basis of his own experience, for they did not yet know from Scripture that he had to rise from the dead”. He knew from personal experience.
David Capes
What this is like.
Ben Witherington III
What this means, David, is this whole Gospel is written through Easter eyes. The whole story of the beloved disciple is in light of the resurrection. And this is one of the main reasons this Gospel is so different from Matthew, Mark and Luke. It’s one thing to be an eyewitness of the ministry of Jesus. It’s a whole other ball game to be raised from the dead by Jesus, and then write down your personal testimony, which is what John 21 says. Now, here’s the kicker from John 21. Peter gets recommissioned. Tend my sheep, tend my lambs, guide my flock, etc. And then, of course, nosey Peter has a question. Lord, what about this guy, the beloved disciple? What about him? And Jesus says, this really interesting thing. If it is my will that he remain until I return, what’s that to you? Keep on walking. Keep on following me. Then we have this parenthesis. “Jesus did not say it is my will that he live until the Second Coming. Jesus only said, if it is my will that’s nothing to you. You have to follow me.” Now, why do we need that parenthetical qualification? I’ll tell you why. He died again. Lazarus died again. I would love to find Lazarus’ gravestone. It would say, died 29 AD, died 63 AD. This would confuse some people!
David Capes
Yes, two death dates on the gravestone. Well, it’s going to be a great lecture, Ben. I can’t wait for you to get here, unroll and unpack some of this. And I want to get your book too, because I want to see how you do it in writing as well. Thanks for being with us today on “The Stone Chapel Podcast.”
Ben Witherington III
My pleasure.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
