00:14:03
You don’t want your character running after your gifting. And the thing that you said just a few moments ago is that the gift I had in me could not be sustained by what was in me. And I, when I have seen people blow up, I think oftentimes it’s, wow, look at their gift. And there’s almost like this spiritual prostitution. Instead of saying, but what about their soul?
00:14:30
What about their character? What are they like outside of the stage? And that takes time to see. So let me transition a little bit. So you’ve spoken at the largest events there is.
00:14:45
You’ve done everything that there is to do. Why is it that ministry leaders believe that ministry can heal their wounds? Yeah, I think that’s a great question. And I’m not sure that they believe that they can heal their wounds as much as ministry can hide your wounds and hide your brokenness. So that’s where I think it is more than that is like you can the, when I say the best, it’ll be the most destructive.
00:15:12
But one of the hidden in plain sights that you can hide your dysfunction, your brokenness, your wounds, your sin is right here in ministry. Because when you dazzle people with your gift, hello. You deflect their attention from Christ onto your gift. And so they’re not going to look any deeper into your life. But if you are directing people to Christ, then they will be able to discern beyond your gift to what’s happening in your character.
00:15:39
And so I think there’s more hiding than healing is what you’re looking for. So what are three things that you intentionally do to allow the sanctifying work of the spirit to continue to mend and to heal you? Yeah, I think there’s a couple of things is I am very committed to being on team in a local church so as much as the Lord has enlarged the sphere of my life and influence across the globe, I’ve only in my whole Christian life been planted in two churches. One was in Australia and, you know, I’m on team at Mariners Church in California. And so I think for my own sake, being under true submission to the authority of a senior pastor has for Nick and I been really, really a safeguard in many ways because it means there are checks and balances that are outside of just us and our ministry as well.
00:16:37
We’re genuinely on team at church. It’s not just, you know, so that I think that’s very, that’s very important because it reminds me that I’m part of a whole, that the thing that I’m a part of is bigger than any part I play. And I think that’s got to be really important. And I think you only get that by really being planted in church, planting church. I think that’s very significant because it reminds me the thing that I’m a part of, which is building God’s church across the globe and God’s church is way bigger than any part I play.
00:17:04
So the minute I think my ministry is bigger than God’s church, we’ve got a problem. We’ve got a problem. So I think that’s a really good safeguard in that way. You know, I have a really genuine, close, authentic, truly loving, but truly iron sharpening iron relationship with my husband Nick as well. And we are together in the same room 90% of our lives.
00:17:28
Like, you know, we have traveled together, our ministry lives. He is the CEO over the ministry. So, you know, I think there’s lots of checks and balances there as well, in that decisions are very mutual. He very much leads many aspects of it. So I think what it does is it just keeps another check and balance in there of like, I’m not on the boards, I can’t sign checks, I can’t, you know, like, I’m not on any of that.
00:17:55
I think a lot of that keeps. It keeps some good checks and balances in place. Again, you can only ever be as accountable as you want to be. I mean, everyone that we have seen, you know, great failures over the last few years, every one of those people would have said they were accountable. So it’s.
00:18:11
And, you know, everyone listening to this is thinking, I’m accountable. So at the end of the day, either your heart is or your heart isn’t. And I have, you know, I’ve got kids, they’ll keep you as real as it gets. And I have very genuine friendships that have got longevity. People that knew Christine before Christine was this Christine, you know, in that sense.
00:18:30
So it says something to have people in your life still after 40 years that you’re in youth group together, and now we’re doing this and that I’ve got, you know, a handful, but a handful of very genuine long term friends that are in no way impressed with what I do but love me and would no way want to limit me, you know, again, that’s the other side of this. You want to fulfill your purpose. I’m all about it. The scripture doesn’t say, humble each other in the sight of the Lord. It says, humble yourself in the sight of the Lord.
00:19:00
Our job is to spur each other on, to protect each other, to encourage each other. So I’ve got those friends that are never going to try to minimize me or there’s no jealousy or trying to limit me, but they definitely know me well enough without, I don’t think, in any way I’m manufacturing this. They know me well enough that if something was to really go awry, they would be onto it sooner rather than later. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:26
What are you excited about in the church now? When I say in the church, I mean the global church. Yeah. Well, you know, I spend seven months of my year outside of America, like, into the global church. So that’s.
00:19:37
I love it. I have okay to say this. At 57, after 35 years of ministry, I’ve never been more excited because I am seeing, you know, like, first fruits, like the first taste of a move of the spirit. You know, we talk about what happened here in America at Asbury. Asbury.
00:19:59
Okay. My brain just went at Asbury. Since then, it has been continually, I can’t tell you a country I’ve gone to where it’s not like, oh, my word. I’m seeing that there’s something in Gen Z and younger that. I mean, my eyes are big like saucers right now because God is moving.
00:20:15
I’m seeing young people prostrate before the Lord at altars, desperately seeking the presence of God. They want Jesus. They want to live lives on mission for Jesus. I mean, once he starts seeing that kind of stuff, I’m like, I think they’ve seen so many of the excesses they’ve seen that the world doesn’t deliver. Like, I mean, we could do anything.
00:20:35
I mean, we could even choose what gender I want to be today. I mean, the world. I mean, really, what’s left? And I think they’re discovering, oh, wow, there’s got to be more. Not only that, I hope there’s more.
00:20:47
I hope there is a Jesus that is resurrected. Because if this is all there is, we’ve got problems. And I’m seeing that whether I see it in Italy, in Argentina, I was just in Singapore, I’m going to Indonesia, in South Africa, I’m seeing it everywhere. And I’m like, oh, the Lord. The Lord’s getting ready to pour out his spirit in a way that I think I certainly, I haven’t seen for a really long time, like many decades.
00:21:11
And so, you know, sin abounds. The scripture says their grace abounds. Even I feel like we’re in that season. It’s like, is there plenty of evil and darkness? Could we spend this whole podcast talking about the darkness in human trafficking?
00:21:23
Yes. I see it more than most. I see it more explicitly than most people do. But I also know that where there is so much evil and darkness, grace is abounding, salvation is abounding, healing is abounding. So I’m looking for what God is doing rather than solely emphasizing what the devil’s doing.
00:21:40
It’s very easy. We can see what he’s doing everywhere, but I’m looking for where is the Lord moving. So I guess I’m excited because I know the word revival gets thrown around, but I’d have to admit I really think we’re on the edge of it. I really do. Amen.
00:21:54
You know, a few things that struck me, and I want to emphasize, one you talked about, we can hide behind our gifts. And the word that I want to give in conclusion is this is as ministry leaders, as pastors, as just followers of Jesus, let’s not hide behind our gifts. Let’s hide in Christ. Beautiful Colossians3:3 says, “you have died and your life is hidden in Christ.” What that means is our value, our worth, our significance, all of it has been enveloped and incorporated into Jesus himself.
00:22:32
And we can truly be free. He is our defense. We don’t have to be weary and striving, and we can allow the healer to do what he does best. And that is a deep, deep healing work. And the most powerful people in ministry are those whose origin story they’ve allowed Jesus to redeem, that the pain becomes purpose, that the tragedy becomes triumph.
00:22:57
Well, Christine, you’re awesome, Vicki, and I love you so much. Transformation Church loves you. And to our listeners, thank you so much for for tuning in because check this out. When the church is transformed, the world will be transformed. This is Dr. Derwin Gray.
00:23:13
Marinate on that. You know, if you listen to the podcast, you know that I love research used to lead a research company. So I love it when research helps to illustrate a question we have. And one of the questions a lot of people are having is how do we look to the decline of the family, maybe the relationship around fatherhood and issues of faith and church? Well, again, the Communio nationwide study on faith and relationships actually points to the collapse of marriage, where resident fatherhood fits into that, and how they all point ultimately to a relationship to Christianity and decline in the church.
00:23:44
So visit communio.org study to download Communio’s nationwide study on faith and relationships. Thanks for listening to today’s episode of Transforming The Church. If you found this episode helpful or encouraging, please subscribe. Leave us a review and share this with someone in your life. For more resources, head to Transformationchurch.TC/podcast.
