Dr. Kyle Strobel is a teacher, writer and preacher. He’s the associate professor of spiritual theology and formation at Talbot School of Theology at Biola.
Dr. Jamin Goggin is a professor at Biola University, pastor at Mission Hills Church, and director of the Center for Christian Formation.
Kyle and Jamin have collaborated on several books, including “The Way of the Dragon or the Way of the Lamb: Searching for Jesus’ Path of Power in a Church That Has Abandoned It.”
Check out the first part of our conversation with them here: Kyle Strobel and Jamin Goggin, Part 1: Why the Church’s Problem With Power Is Not ‘Over There’
“The Stetzer ChurchLeaders Podcast” is part of the ChurchLeaders Podcast Network.
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Key Questions for Kyle Strobel and Jamin Goggin
-How can church leaders become more self-aware of how they’re potentially misusing power?
-If the heart is deceitful above all else, are leaders doomed to fail?
-How would you suggest church leaders respond the next time another scandal breaks or another leader falls?
-What is your exhortation to pastors so they can walk rightly in and around the issues of power and ministry?
Key Quotes From Kyle Strobel
“If spiritual practices are merely a three-step process to grow yourself, that’s just kind of fleshly and demonic as anything else.”
“[Jamin and I] saw the demonic at work in our own lives and our own desires to be great in ministry.”
“For a lot of folks, if they’re already in positions of leadership, it could be too late because the way a lot of those folks get there is to burn all the bridges, to have no one who actually gets to speak into their life, to be unknown by everyone.”
“[Church leaders should cultivate] relations that aren’t above or below…but actual kind of mutual relations of friendship and sibling-like relationships.”
“When we get in the mindset that it’s our job as leaders, pastors, elders, whoever to get things done, in a very real sense, the battle is already lost. Ultimately, our call is to love and to bear witness to the resurrected and ascended Lord of glory.”
“We have embraced a vision that God isn’t necessary for. And until we recover that, we have no hope.”
“We still have a deep belief that evil power is the only power that can actually get things done.”
“What we cultivate in our ministries, you can’t merely look by sight, for good or for bad…if you do not grow weary in doing good, you can trust that if you abide in the Lord, you will bear fruit that lasts.”
Key Quotes From Jamin Goggin
“So much of my experience has been, [practical] tools are wielded so as to avoid the hard work of things like actually coming to know another soul and discerning their heart, things like having to wrestle in prayer about what God is actually doing, things like having to bear with one another in an elder room as a decision is made and arrive at unity. These things are highly inefficient.”
