In a wide-ranging interview with Ben Shapiro on June 9, pastor and Bible teacher John MacArthur talked about hot-button topics such as Christian nationalism, the so-called “war on children,” and the state of churches in the United States. MacArthur, president of Grace to You, also answered questions about how to find a good church, how to minister to skeptics, and how to properly characterize Jesus.
On Sunday’s edition of “The Ben Shapiro Show,” the editor emeritus of the Daily Wire spoke to MacArthur for an hour about “The Religious Decline of the West.” MacArthur, longtime pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, appeared via video. The pastor, who turns 85 next week, addressed biblical morality, wokeness, and the role of church and family in today’s culture.
Shapiro, an Orthodox Jew, is a prominent conservative figure. He, like MacArthur, has made numerous controversial statements.
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John MacArthur: Bible-Believing Churches Must Bear Moral Authority
During Sunday’s interview, Shapiro brought up the “devastating” effects of decreased church attendance among Americans. MacArthur cited possible factors including weak, worldly churches and the crumbling family structure.
“Many, many churches have lost their sense of transcendence,” said MacArthur. “It’s like going to a rock concert. It’s like going to a TED talk. It’s like going to hear somebody tell you you’re really a wonderful person and you can speak your own world into existence.”
“It’s psychological and sociological games,” he continued, “but it lacks…the sense of connecting with God, with finding reality in an invisible means of support beyond yourself.”
Shapiro asked how people seeking biblical truth amid that atmosphere can “determine what is a Bible-believing church that’s worth their time versus a church that maybe has a Pride progress flag hanging off the door and claims to be speaking in the name of the gospels.”
“A church that is faithful to Scripture, a synagogue that is faithful to Scripture, bears moral authority,” MacArthur responded. “It exists to say, ‘This is what the Lord has said. This is what God requires. This is divine mandate. This is the morality that leads to blessing and disobedience. And disregard for this morality leads to cursing.’”
