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Doctrine, Denominations, and Divisions

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The 20th Century will be likely be remembered as the Century of ecclesiastical ecumenism. The 21st Century is shaping up to follow suit–not simply because of a widespread desire for co-belligerency, but on account of a doctrinal reductionism that seeks to dilute Christianity down to the most basic creedal statements of the early church.

One of the driving forces behind the push for ecclesiastical ecumenically is the quest for societal community–as evidenced by the rise of Marxist and Communist ideology in Western society. Ironically, many of those seeking radical community also (perhaps unwittingly) embrace elements of the radical individualism of post-modernity. Champions of our current ecumenism view previous communal labors for doctrinal continuity as being either archaic or overly restrictive. While doctrinal statements such as the Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechism, were once considered ecumenical–among various ecclesiastical bodies in the Reformed and Protestant world–they are now frowned upon (sadly even by many ministers who vow to uphold their teachings in a number of Presbyterian denominations). All of this leads us to reopen the question as to whether or not denominations and doctrinal divisions are antithetical to the unity of the church throughout the world.

In 1985, J.I. Packer delivered a lecture at Tenth Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia titled, “Divisions in the Church,” in order to tackle the important issue of doctrinal and denominational unity and diversity. In this particular lecture (and in the subsequent related essay in The Collected Shorter Writings of J.I. Packer, vol. 2), Packer dealt with the following three categories: shameful divisionsinescapable divisions and dealing with divisions. Starting with the biblical call to unity among the one community of believers throughout the world, Packer noted, “Neither you nor I are the only pebble on God’s beach.” He then went on to affirm the unity that all believers have, regardless of the denomination in which they have bound themselves:

The church may be pictured like the wheel of a bicycle. Christ is the hub. You and I are spokes. Because we are linked with Christ we belong to the church and have something to give by way of stability and usefulness to the rim of the wheel, that is, the church’s outward witness, worship and life. United to the one Saviour we are united to each other in the one universal church. This church is the family of God. It is also the body of Christ. The New Testament speaks of ‘members,’ not of the church, but of Christ; “membership” is part of the notion of the church as Christ’s body. “Members” means “limbs,” not people who sit in pews and pay their dues but people vitally united to Christ–limbs, organs and units in his body. which is the visible church worldwide. The church is also the fellowship of the Holy Spirit. Believers share in the life of the Spirit, giving and taking in the fellowship which the Spirit sustains. “Give and take” is the constant formula of Christian fellowship.

Shameful Divisions

The Bible’s emphasis on the unity of all true believers–by virtue of their union with Christ and of the subsequent indwelling of the Spirit within each believer–is always at risk of being lost. In the New Testament, we find the Apostles laboring tirelessly to preserve the unity of the members of the body of Christ. Packer explained:

Paul was distressed to discover that at Corinth…there were people separating into parties according to which was the favorite preacher for each group: “I belong to Paul,” “I belong to Apollos,” “I belong to Cephas.” And evidently there were a few people who, in the face of this, tried to keep their end up as simple Christians saying, “I belong to Christ; I don’t know about you, but Christ is the one to whom I give loyalty.” It distressed Paul that there should be divisions in that congregation.

If we are going to study divisions in the church, we had better recognize that we are studying something pathological. We are studying a form of spiritual ill-health in Christ’s body. Our study is compared to a doctor studying blindness in the eye or paralysis in the limbs. Division in the church means that “something is wrong.” The body is out of sorts.

Inescapable Divisions

To this point, all true believers should be pronouncing a loud ‘Amen!’ However, a close consideration of Scripture’s teaching on the subject of divisions in the church reveals that there are what may be deemed necessary of inescapable divisions. Packer suggests that “not all division is the same sort of division. We can never think clearly about division in the church until we have recognized that this is so. Not all division is the same sort of division. Divisions take place for different reasons and the ethics of division are different in different situations.” He then gives five categories by which we may give consideration to such inescapable divisions: “(1) Divisions about beliefs and doctrine, (2) the faithful church withdrawing from the scandalous church, (3) a forthright church withdrawing from a fuzzy church, (4) divisions over church order, and (5) divisions for non-theological reasons.” A brief consideration of each of these categories is essential to understanding the biblical data on inescapable divisions:

Divisions about beliefs and doctrine. “In the New Testament,” insists Packer, “you have divisions whereby the authentic church differentiates itself from what is really the non-church, where previously the two were confused. This sort of division, which identifies the body rather than divides it, can clear the air in a helpful way. This is one of the things John wanted his readers to understand when he wrote his first letter. There had been a split in the fellowship, because some folk claimed to have received new understanding and eventually left the fellowship to pursue it. John writes to those who stayed behind to assure them that in staying with the apostolic preaching they were showing they were true believers and that the others were not Christians at all. It was a necessary sorting out. John says, ‘They went out from us but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that some of them belonged to us.” (1 John 2:18,19)

The Faithful Church Withdrawing from the Scandalous Church. “The historical sixteenth century Reformation was one such case…It is ruinous to add anything to Christ as mediator. Salvation is through Christ alone. Any church which is taken in by any form of ‘Christ-plus’ teaching is scandalous and in deep spiritual trouble…When the Reformers opposed these errors, they found resistance at every point. So they had to withdraw to preserve the Gospel. Protestantism was thus born. It is sad that it happened. But it did have to happen, or the Gospel could never have been preserved for us. That is one kind of division that has sometimes been necessary.”

6 Simple Strategies That Help Me Pray More

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Earlier this week, I posted at Thom Rainer’s Church Answers site an article called, “7 Things that Happen When Church Leaders Don’t Pray Much.” This battle is real for me, so I, too, have to work at building prayer into my life. I’ve written about some strategies for prayer in the past, but here are some more practical ways that help me these days. Maybe one of these ways will help you, too:

  1. I pray for our Southeastern Seminary faculty members and our International Mission Board cross-cultural workers on their birthdays. I keep the faculty names on my personal calendar, and I get a monthly IMB birthday prayer list here. You might do the same kind of praying over your extended family members and your church staff. I’ve also known some pastors and small group leaders who do the same thing on the wedding anniversaries of their church members.
  2. I use my morning treadmill time to pray. I realize many folks can’t multi-task well, but all of us can pray while we walk or run. If I walk for an hour, I plan to spend all that time with God. Even when I don’t know what to pray about in the moment, I just revert to praising God for His goodness – or simply to meditating on Him.
  3. Though I use the morning time to pray, I assume God wants to hear from me at any time, about anything. That means I have a running conversation with God throughout the day. I’m sure folks would think I’m strange if they heard me said too loudly things like, “Man, Lord, gas is really high now!” or “Thank You, God, that this 20-year-old car still runs” or “Help me do just one more rep at this weight” – but I love that kind of conversation with my Creator.
  4. I’m trying hard to invest in non-believers—and those relationships have beckoned me to prayer. You can’t spend much time with unbelieving folks without realizing you can’t change their lives in your own power. Only God does that, and He does that through the proclamation of His Word and the prayers of His people. In fact, I think He’s deepened my burden so I almost can’t help but fall at His feet on behalf of others.
  5. I join parents I love in praying for their kids every day. Pam and I don’t have children, but that doesn’t mean we can’t pray for kids. I pray for our nieces and nephews, the children of my IMB team, and the kids of young men I’ve mentored. Particularly, I pray the Lord will save each of them, and He will use them mightily in His work in the decades to come. In that way, I get to pray for gospel work that will go on long after God has called me home.
  6. Contrary to the way I used to be, I’m more concerned now about the frequency of my prayers than about the length of my prayers. In fact, I’m reminded that long prayers can sometimes be pretense (Matt 6:7-8, Luke 20:45-47). Ongoing, short prayers throughout the day now seem much more on target to me than a lengthy prayer that I pray only once a day.

I have much, much room to grow in prayer, but I hope at least one of these ideas helps you. The cost is simply too great if we church leaders don’t pray much.

This article originally appeared here and is used by permission. 

Is Yours an Equipped Church?

communicating with the unchurched

Church leaders who claim to be serious about leading a disciple-making church aren’t going to get very far with such a claim if their flock isn’t equipped. But the equipping of the saints for ministry is one of the greatest failures among church leaders today.

It’s remarkable that we miss the mark regarding equipping since it is such a blatantly stated responsibility of leaders:

“Now these are the gifts Christ gave the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ,” Ephesians 4:11-12.

Let’s take a look at just one impact of not having equipped saints in the church. Throughout my work in ministry, I have often been asked to write curriculums. Those requests have come for a few reasons, 1) the pastor didn’t have the skills to do it himself, and also claimed to not have the time to do it, 2) a lack of good curriculums on the right subjects by Christian publishers, and 3) here’s one of the most important issues of all: the church not having any other people who are spiritually mature enough, and biblically literate and skilled enough to be able to take a topic and create their own lessons.

Please take note of that third point, because it wreaks havoc within the church. I have sat in on many meetings where pastors were told by others they would be willing to teach something, but only if they were provided with a curriculum. Fortunately, I have known some guys who wouldn’t take a curriculum if you gave them one because they want to teach and they want to dig into the Word themselves and prepare to teach from their own direct study of the Word of God. The problem is, those kinds of willing and capable (equipped!) teachers are few and far between in the church today.

That’s because we haven’t equipped the saints enough to be competent in taking the Word of God and teaching it to others. If you must depend on a curriculum, then you’re likely not equipped enough to disciple someone else. And if you’re not equipped enough to disciple someone else, you won’t be making disciples and discipling them.

That means you’re not going to have a disciple-making church.

Key to equipping your flock is discipling others fully so they can take what you have taught them in the Word of God and teach others, an example the Apostle Paul set for us with Timothy …

“Timothy, my dear son, be strong through the grace that God gives you in Christ Jesus. You have heard me teach things that have been confirmed by many reliable witnesses. Now teach these truths to other trustworthy people who will be able to pass them on to others,” 2 Timothy 2:1-2.

You don’t develop a disciple-making flock by continuing to leave your people dependent on curriculums, but only by discipling them so they are able to take the Word of God and, in a trustworthy manner, be able to teach others.

Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not against the use of curriculums or other teaching or evangelism aids. I equip people in how to share the Gospel using a specific evangelistic tool, and continue to write curriculums on occasion, but all to be used as just a tool. My point is, if we are dependent on them, then we greatly limit the scope of what we can “teach” and how we can teach. We need to be equipped enough in the Word of God so that we can step beyond our tools and be able to fully disciple others.

Is yours an equipped church? Can members of your flock take a subject and teach it from scripture in a trustworthy manner? If not, you’ve got some equipping to do.

This article originally appeared here.

Life Skills for Teens: Are Your Kids Well Equipped for Adulthood?

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Life skills for teens are essential as young people prepare to head out into the real world. Are the members of your youth group and church ready for adulthood? Can they take care of themselves physically? Are you confident they can navigate the world of adult expectations and responsibilities on their own?

Don’t forget social, emotional, and mental needs. Do your teenagers know the basics of self-care? Are they able to assist friends during challenging times? Most importantly, what type of spiritual life skills do your teens have? Are they grounded in God’s Word, ready to face attacks from the world and the enemy?

That may sound like a tall order. But parents and youth leaders don’t need to fit in all that teaching during senior year of high school. Thankfully we usually have several years to help teens develop life skills before they become independent.

A Closer Look at Life Skills for Teens

Whether you’re a parent or a teen ministry leader, you have the privilege of guiding teens into adulthood. Here’s a look at some general areas and specific skills to address before kids fly from the nest.

Spiritual Life Skills for Teens

Until high school graduation, most teens rely on youth group for devotion and prayer times. And while those faith experiences are powerful, kids need to own their faith and pursue a personal relationship with Jesus. So provide tips and resources for building one-on-one quiet time with God. Set an example too, modeling how to prioritize spiritual nurturing despite busy schedules.

Here are some resources for bolstering teens’ spiritual lives:

Social & Emotional Life Skills for Teens

Next, consider the wide range of social and emotional skills young people need to succeed. Some people call these “soft skills.” But they can be some of the most difficult concepts to master, even for adults.

For example, do your teens know the basics of self-care? Can they prioritize tasks, manage schedules and deadlines, and handle other executive-functioning tasks? Can they set (and meet) short- and long-term goals?

How well do kids handle peer pressure? Can they set healthy boundaries and say no when appropriate? Do they know how to ask for help?

Young people must feel comfortable in a variety of social interactions too. Do your teens know how to intervene when someone is in trouble? Whether a classmate is being bullied or a friend is in crisis, kids may need to act quickly.

Interactions with adults might be intimidating for some teens. So empower them to initiate conversations appropriately and to speak respectfully and confidently. Teach skills such as direct eye contact, engaged listening, and follow through.

‘God Can Break In’—Rabbi Jason Sobel Explains Why the Miracles of Jesus Give Us Hope for Today

Rabbi Jason Sobel
Images courtesy of Rabbi Jason Sobel

“I think that we live in a time where there’s a lot of fear and anxiety, and people are struggling,” says Rabbi Jason Sobel. “And the miracles of Jesus are really meant to give us hope, to understand that no matter how difficult our situations or circumstances are, God can break in and do something even when it seems hopeless.”

Rabbi Jason Sobel was raised in a Jewish home and came to believe in Jesus as Lord after having a dramatic encounter with God. He is the founder of Fusion Global and the author of several books, including “Mysteries of the Messiah” and “The Rock, the Road, and the Rabbi,” the latter of which he co-authored with Kathie Lee Gifford. His latest book is “Signs and Secrets of the Messiah: A Fresh Look at the Miracles of Jesus.” 

Rabbi Jason Sobel: Jesus’ Miracles Show Us Who God Is

Rabbi Jason Sobel joined ChurchLeaders for an interview about “Signs and Secrets of the Messiah” during which he shared insights on how Jesus’ miracles “reveal the heart of God.” This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

What led you to write this book and what are you hoping that people, Christians in particular, are going to take away from it?

I think that we live in a time where there’s a lot of fear and anxiety, and people are struggling. And the miracles of Jesus are really meant to give us hope, to understand that no matter how difficult our situations or circumstances are, God can break in and do something even when it seems hopeless, like with the man who couldn’t walk for 38 years. No matter how long it’s been, God can show up and do something. And also, we want people to see the Bible, and especially the life of Jesus, in high definition.

One year I went out and bought a high definition television right before the Super Bowl. People were like, “It’s going to change the way you see the game.” And I’m like, “This isn’t so great.” And at the end of the game, I have a revelation: The higher channels are the high definition channels. I watched the whole game in standard definition! When I saw it in high def, I realized, “This makes a difference.”

RELATED: Jason Sobel: How to Read the Bible in High Definition

So when you see how the old and the new connect, how God is in the details, the original Jewish, historical context, it makes the Bible come to life. It makes it exciting, but it also helps us to realize that just like God is in every detail that’s written in the Bible, God is in every detail of our lives as well, and he’s working it out together for good.

At one point in your book you write, “If we are Christians, walking in the supernatural should be natural for us.” Do you see Christians commonly walking in the supernatural, and if not, what do you typically observe?

I think it’s a mixed bag. Jesus says he wants those who worship him to worship in spirit and in truth, and I think there are those who lean more towards the Word and theology side, and there’s more who lead towards the Spirit side. But I think there has to be a balance between the two. It’s the Word and the Spirit. I think part of the problem, though, is that sometimes when people try to walk in the supernatural or seek God for the miraculous, oftentimes it just looks weird. It looks strange. And I think we’re called to be naturally supernatural.

The Holy Spirit lives inside of us, God is with us—that’s already supernatural. We have a new birth that’s already supernatural, and the Kingdom of God is within us. If the Spirit of Jesus is within us, it should be natural to hear God’s voice. It should be natural to pray for people and to see God show up and to do incredible things in their lives. And he said greater things than these you will do. Either we believe what he said or we don’t.

RELATED: Speaking in Tongues Is Now Part of Max Lucado’s Regular Prayer Time

Your book focuses on signs and miracles in the Gospel of John. What made you choose John out of the four gospels?

One of the names that theologians and scholars give to the book of John is the “Book of Signs”—hence the name, “Signs and Secrets of the Messiah”—because [John] is centered around these seven unique signs that Jesus performed. Some of these miracles are not found in any of the other gospels. And so I think that was the reason, combined with the fact that John brings a lot of rich symbolism and meaning that’s on a deeper level. 

One of the miracles you cover is when Jesus turns water into wine. Could you tell us a little bit about what is significant about that miracle?

Absolutely. Think about it for a moment: If the first miracle Jesus does is turning water into wine, obviously there has to be a reason why that’s the first miracle. So again, one of the reasons why John wrote his gospel and one of the reasons why I love focusing on John is [John] said these things were written that you might believe that Jesus is the Messiah, that he is the Son of God.

60 Years After Birmingham Church Bombing, America Remembers Victims of Racial Violence

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On the 60th anniversary of the bombing at the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, Americans paused to remember the young victims of racial violence.

RELATED: Condoleezza Rice: 9/11 Shows Us How to Respond to This Crisis with Faith

Just two weeks after Martin Luther King Jr. gave his “I Have a Dream Speech,” members of the Ku Klux Klan set off dynamite beneath the Birmingham church steps on Sept. 15, 1963. The explosion killed four girls who were freshening up before Sunday worship: Denise McNair, 11; Cynthia Wesley, 14; Carole Robertson, 14; and Addie Mae Collins, 14. Survivor Sarah Collins Rudolph, Addie Mae’s sister, lost an eye in the attack.

More than 8,000 people attended the girls’ funeral in Birmingham, America’s most segregated city at the time. The 16th Street Church had been a frequent meeting spot for proponents of the Civil Rights Movement. Years later, three KKK members were convicted of the bombing.

Two other Black youths were also killed in Birmingham that Sunday: 16-year-old Johnny Robinson and 13-year-old Virgil Ware.

Birmingham Church Bombing: Justice Kentaji Brown Jackson Speaks at Memorial Service

At a memorial service for the Birmingham church bombing Friday morning, Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson emphasized the importance of remembering history. “If we are going to continue to move forward as a nation, we cannot allow concerns about discomfort to displace knowledge, truth, or history,” said Jackson, the first Black woman on the U.S. Supreme Court.

“We cannot forget because the uncomfortable lessons are often the ones that teach us the most about ourselves,” she added. “We cannot learn from past mistakes we do not know exist.” Debates about teaching Black history have erupted across America, most notably in Florida, where Jackson grew up.

RELATED: Dr. Derwin Gray Condemns Slavery as ‘Evil’ With Regard to New Florida Standards

Jackson said her parents “intentionally set about teaching (Black history) to me as a young child.” She said she knew that “four little girls, not much older than myself, had been murdered at church. I knew they were killed simply because they were Black.”

Those girls could have someday become professionals—even judges—Jackson noted. “They could have broken barriers. They could have shattered ceilings,” she said.

Remembering the Birmingham Church Bombing Victims

In an opinion piece at AL.com, John Archibald described the strident resistance to race “mixing” in 1960s Alabama. “Newspapers hemmed and hawed…politicians urged Alabamians to defy the courts, (and) preachers twisted words from the Bible to justify discrimination,” Archibald wrote. And “Sunday school children at white churches sang ‘Jesus loves the little children…red and yellow, black and white’ while ushers stood guard to make sure sanctuaries were for whites only.”

Charlie Kirk Tells Pastors TPUSA Faith’s No. 1 Mission: ‘Excommunicate Wokeism From the American Church as Quickly as Possible’

Charlie Kirk TPUSA Faith
Charlie Kirk speaking at TPUSA Faith's Pastors Summit. Photo credit: Jesse T. Jackson

Over 1,000 pastors and ministry leader from around the country came to together in San Diego this past Wednesday (Sept. 13) for the Turning Point USA Faith (TPUSA Faith) Pastors Summit.

Over the course of three days, pastors heard from speakers and subject matter experts, including Charlie KirkJohn CooperEric MetaxasJohn AmanchukwuJohn BevereSean Feucht, Ronnie Floyd, Victor Marx, Seth Gruber, Joshua BroomeLucas MilesShane Idleman, Victoria Robinson, Frank Turek, Jay Koopman, Bill Federer, Ché Ahn, Rob McCoy, and more.

TPUSA Faith’s goal for the Pastors Summit is to encourage and equip pastors to “stand for biblical truth.”

RELATED: Charlie Kirk Exhorts Church Leaders at Sold Out TPUSA Faith ‘Pastors Summit’: ‘If You Love God, You Must Hate Evil’

The Pastors Summit in San Diego is TPUSA Faith’s second Pastors Summit of the year. The first was held in Nashville, Tennessee, in May. The summit draws pastors from all over the country across several denominational affiliations.

“We have five point Calvinists here and swinging from the chandelier Pentecostals,” Kirk said.

“We believe Jesus Christ is the king of the world. We believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the Nicene Creed,” Kirk told attendees. “Theological disputes and differences are fun, interesting, and important. But that’s not my calling.”

Kirk said the calling of TPUSA Faith “is to the strengthen the church, to fight for liberty, which is God’s idea, not man’s idea, in one of the most consequential times, not just for Western civilization, but for humanity.”

One California pastor, who was attending the event with his wife, told ChurchLeaders that he’s never been to a conference where pastors were so well cared for and appreciated. TPUSA Faith covered the cost of the first 1,000 pastors’ rooms at the Intercontinental in San Diego.

RELATED: Charlie Kirk on Tucker Carlson, Abortion, and Why Biden ‘Will Be Tough To Beat in 2024’

“I love being exposed to the type of information that we need to be equipped to fight the spiritual battles we are seeing in our culture today and to go back to our cities and stand strong in the places God has called us,” a pastor from Chicago told ChurchLeaders.

A pastor’s wife from Illinois shared that being in a room filled with pastors from many different denominations was “beautiful.”

Pastor Uses Romans 13 To Urge Submission to Authority as DeSantis-Appointed Oversight Board Spars With Disney District Employees

David Netzorg Disney DeSantis
Pictured: office of the now-renamed Reedy Creek Improvement District (Asher Heimermann, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons); David Netzorg offers invocation at district board meeting (Screengrab via YouTube / Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Board)

Florida pastor David Netzorg encouraged submission to government authorities while offering the invocation at the Sept. 13 meeting of the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Board (previously named the Reedy Creek Improvement District Board), which is the governing body for the jurisdiction of the Walt Disney Resort.

The reminder of God’s sovereignty in establishing government came in the midst of an ongoing dispute between employees of the district, which was previously controlled by Disney, and the district’s new board, which was appointed by Florida governor Ron DeSantis, over benefits and perks offered to employees and retirees of the district. 

Specifically, district workers have raised concerns over the discontinuation of a program that offered free Disney Resort passes to employees and retirees, as well as their families—a perk that was a determining factor for many deciding to work in the district. 

The meeting began with an invocation offered by Netzorg, who serves as pastor of Emmaus Church in Winter Garden. Prior to offering a prayer for the board, Netzorg delivered some personal remarks. 

RELATED: Bill Maher in Favor of Fla.’s Controversial ‘Don’t Say Gay’ Bill: ‘Shouldn’t Parents Know Everything?’

“I want to thank y’all for what you do,” Netzorg told the oversight board. “I appreciate it very much. Government is very important. It’s a calling.”

“God’s Word says that you actually work for God,” Netzorg continued. “This is God’s world and it is structured according to his design. And God established government to minister to people, and he’s called you to be a part of that. And it’s a high calling. So thank you for answering that call. Thank you for what you do; it’s very important.”

“You know, a lot of people think that, ‘Oh, you’re called to be a minister, so you work for God and the rest of us don’t.’ No, all of us do,” Netzorg added. “And when we help other people and when we love other people and make their lives better, enhance their lives, that’s loving your neighbor as yourself, which you probably know is the greatest commandment from the Bible.”

Netzorg then read Romans 13:1-8, in which the apostle Paul urges followers of Jesus to be “subject to the governing authorities.”

During the period of the meeting designated for public comments, one retiree expressed concern that he would no longer be able to afford taking his grandchildren to the Disney Resort—a benefit he had worked very hard for many years to maintain. 

RELATED: ‘What Has Happened at Disney Is Moral Failure’: Franklin Commends FL Governor DeSantis for ‘Bold Stand’

In response, the board stated that a cash stipend has been proposed in lieu of family passes. While the size of that stipend is still a matter of dispute, as employees and retirees have expressed the initial suggested figure is too low, the board expressed that it is working to increase the stipend amount and will update the public in a meeting later this month. 

Catholics in Ukraine Struggle As Pope Francis’ Approval Rating Is at an All-Time Low

Pope Francis
Pope Francis shows a flag that was brought to him from Bucha, Ukraine, during his weekly general audience in the Paul VI Hall, at the Vatican, Wednesday, April 6, 2022. (AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino)

VATICAN CITY (RNS) — Pope Francis’ efforts to keep dialogue open with Russia to achieve peace have frustrated the credibility of the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine, where approval ratings for the pontiff are at a historical low, local church representatives said on Thursday (Sept. 14).

“Before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Holy Father was the most respected religious representative in Ukraine,” said Major Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, the head of the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine, during a news conference on Thursday.

“Toward the end of last year his popularity plummeted to very low approval numbers. This is a great problem for the church in Ukraine,” Shevchuk added.

Forty-five representatives of the Greek Catholic Church in Ukraine met for a summit in Rome Sept. 3-13. Participants celebrated a Mass at St. Peter’s Basilica on Sunday attended by more than 3,000 people from the Ukrainian diaspora. The summit was intended to underline the communion that ties the church in Ukraine to Rome and the pope.

Attendees also met with Vatican representatives and Pope Francis. During a two-hour meeting with the pope, the Ukrainian bishops were able to voice their concerns directly to Francis.

Pope Francis and the Vatican have opted for a diplomatic approach, attempting to foster open dialogue with Ukraine and Russia, and have avoided demonizing Russia and its leader, Vladimir Putin. On some occasions, the pope’s words seemed to defend the Kremlin, by praising Russian history or suggesting NATO expansion justified the invasion of Ukraine.

The pope addressed these concerns during his meeting with Ukrainian religious leaders at the Vatican. “Doubting whose side the pope is on is a painful reality for the Ukrainian people,” Francis said, according to an official statement. “I wish to assure you of my solidarity toward you and of my constant closeness and prayer. I am by your side and at the side of all the Ukrainian people.”

At the news conference, Shevchuk said the pope’s words were “a consoling message.” However, Sheychuk acknowledged that it will be a tough message for the Ukrainian people to accept and a challenge for Catholic leaders to communicate, given the Vatican’s overtures toward Russia.

“We are prepared to communicate the true intentions of the Holy Father and to be the interpreters of his fatherly concern for our people,” he added.

Pope Francis appointed a peace envoy, Cardinal Matteo Zuppi, to mediate negotiations between the parties involved in the conflict. Zuppi has already met with Ukrainian and Russian leaders and he has traveled to the United States for a private meeting with President Joe Biden. On Wednesday, the cardinal also traveled to Beijing to discuss peace efforts.

Survey: Mainline Clergy Are More Liberal Than Their Congregants

Mainline Clergy
Senior Pastor Wolfgang Herz-Lane gives a Martin Luther toy to a child during a service at Christ the King Lutheran Church in Cary, North Carolina. RNS photo by Yonat Shimron

(RNS) — A new survey of mainline clergy finds those leading the historic denominations that once shaped the American Protestant scene are far more liberal than their congregants on a host of political and social issues.

The Public Religion Research Institute survey of 3,066 mainline clergy, released Thursday (Sept. 14), shows that about half identify with the Democratic Party, 28% identify as independents and only 14% as Republicans.

In this sense, they are the inverse of evangelical clergy, whom surveys find to be overwhelmingly conservative and vote Republican.

Mainline clergy are also more liberal than their congregants, who tend to be divided among Republicans (36%), independents (35%) and Democrats (24%).

These mainline clergy are more supportive than their congregants of LGBTQ rights, more likely to have opposed the overturn of Roe v. Wade and less likely to believe America is in danger of losing its culture and identity.

"Party Affiliation and Political Ideology" Graphic courtesy PRRI

“Party Affiliation and Political Ideology” Graphic courtesy of PRRI

“Compared with our 2008 analysis, we find that mainline Protestant clergy have become both more likely to identify as Democratic and less likely to identify as Republican; mainline clergy are also more ideologically liberal and/or more moderate than in our 2008 survey, with fewer clergy identifying as conservative,” the survey concluded.

But despite the risks they may face when speaking their minds about issues where they are more ideologically liberal than their congregants, these mainline clergy are committed to having challenging conversations about politics.

Most mainline clergy, the survey found, believe their congregants are largely accepting of them when their political views differ and are also generally accepting of their fellow church members in cases of political disagreement.

“One of the things that stood out to me is that mainline clergy would like to be talking about politics, even when they recognize that such conversations can be potentially uncomfortable for their members,” said Melissa Deckman, PRRI’s chief executive.

Melissa Deckman. Photo courtesy of PRRI

Melissa Deckman. Photo courtesy of PRRI

To be sure, mainline clergy hold a spectrum of beliefs: 55% identify as liberal, 22% identify as moderate and 22% as conservative. Of the seven denominations surveyed, clergy from the United Methodist Church and American Baptist Churches USA were far less likely to identify as liberal, compared with clergy from the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the Episcopal Church, the Lutheran Evangelical Church in America and the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

A recent study by Duke University sociologist Mark Chaves and postdoctoral research associate Joseph Roso found that 74% of white evangelical clergy reported their political views were about the same as those of most people in their congregations, suggesting evangelical clergy are far more in sync with their congregants. That can allow evangelicals to more easily mobilize as a political base and it makes them a potent, and indeed central, constituency of the Republican Party.

Deckman said education is probably the reason why mainline clergy are more liberal than their evangelical cousins.

Once a Baby-Faced Conservative Revolutionary, Al Mohler Is Now an SBC Institution

Albert Mohler
The Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr. speaks to a forum as the new president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, in 1993. Video screen grab

(RNS) — Not long after he’d been named president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky, the flagship seminary of the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, R. Albert Mohler Jr. stood in front of the student body in the school’s chapel to take questions.

The room was tense. More than a few students, not least the women who had come to the seminary to train to be pastors — were unhappy that the board had elected Mohler, the 33-year-old editor of a Georgia Baptist paper, with no experience in running any institution, never mind a school with nearly 2,000 students.

During the Q&A session, one of the students asked how Mohler would supervise faculty members who were much older and presumably wiser than he was.

“I intend to age,” he said, provoking laughter and cutting some of the tension.

Thirty years later, Mohler has kept his promise. “That’s one of the most faithfully fulfilled pledges ever made by a human being,” said Mohler, 63, in a recent interview.

For three decades, Mohler has been one of the most influential leaders among Southern Baptists and the broader evangelical movement, explaining their theology to the outside world and promoting conservative values often at odds with societal trends. Mohler runs an op-ed section at World Magazine’s website, helping to shape evangelical views on morals, faith and above all politics. (A never-Trumper in 2016, he supported Donald Trump four years later.)

R. Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, speaks at the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans, La., on June 13, 2023. RNS photo by Emily Kask

The Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, speaks at the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center in New Orleans, La., on June 13, 2023. RNS photo by Emily Kask

When Rick Warren, founder of Saddleback Church in California and a legend among Southern Baptist Convention megachurch pastors, challenged the denomination’s ban against women pastors at this summer’s annual meeting in New Orleans, it was Mohler who was selected to go toe-to-toe with Warren. Mohler won the day.

Yet Mohler’s outspoken views and penchant for controversy can overshadow another truth about the longtime leader. His seminary is thriving at a time when Christian higher education is in turmoil and many other seminaries are selling off their campuses or consolidating and the number of students pursuing Master of Divinity degrees plummets.

“He is one of the most-omnicompetent people I know,” said longtime friend Danny Akin, president of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Akin, who worked at Southern in the early years of Mohler’s tenure, attributes his former boss’s staying power to a combination of a relentless work ethic and a very thick skin. Mohler has also proved himself capable, Akin said, of digesting theological tomes while managing the often complex finances and egos of a major educational institution.

It’s these skills, rather than the mere passage of time, that have made Mohler the second-longest-serving president in Southern’s history, outdone only by Duke K. McCall, who led Southern from 1951 to 1982— a record Mohler plans to surpass.

The Rev. Billy Graham, left, and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary president R. Albert Mohler Jr. Photo courtesy of SBTS

The Rev. Billy Graham, left, and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary president Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr. Photo courtesy of SBTS

Mohler is also one of the longest-serving seminary presidents in the country, according to 2020 data from the Association of Theological Schools. Only 2% of seminary leaders have been in their roles for more than 20 years, while half have been in their roles for less than five years.

Sharing Your Personal Stories Is More Powerful Than You Think

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5In 2019, the New York Times reported that scientists are confirming the power of narrative stories to give meaning to our lives. Our personal stories tell us who we are and why we’re here, and as the Times reported:

Every American may be working on a screenplay, but we are also continually updating a treatment of our own life — and the way in which we visualize each scene not only shapes how we think about ourselves, but how we behave, new studies find. By better understanding how life stories are built, this work suggests, people may be able to alter their own narrative, in small and perhaps large ways.

This report is heavy stuff, but it confirms that telling the stories of our lives helps make us who we are. That’s why I’ve always advocated for storytelling—and you don’t have to be in what’s normally considered a “creative” area to do it.

If you’re in business, share your personal story through your presentations and reports. If you’re a pastor, tell more personal stories in the pulpit. If you’re a filmmaker, understand the power of dramatic structure.

At any moment, when someone asks, “Tell me about yourself,” you need to be ready because someone out there needs to hear your story.

Because stories connect with people in a way nothing else can. 

This article originally appeared here and is used by permission. 

8 Reasons Why Non-Believers Don’t Always Listen to Us

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I’m working hard at developing relationships with non-believers. I’m reminded regularly, though, that they don’t always readily listen to believers when we try to share the gospel. I knew that, but I’m also learning in conversation with them why they don’t want to listen. Here are some of the reasons I’m hearing:

  1. They sense we’re treating them more as projects than as people we care about. That happens when we talk with them only to share the gospel but then turn away from them when they aren’t ready to respond.
  2. They see us only as judgmental. We may not be at all, but they have a tendency at times to lump all believers together. One group that really is uncaring and judgmental colors the reputation of all of us.
  3. They haven’t seen much gospel change in our own lives. They aren’t interested in hearing more about the gospel when that message doesn’t seem to have affected us much.
  4. They learn we’re not prepared—or willing, even—to engage their questions. Their inquiries are sometimes smokescreens, but some are honest questions. When we talk past or ignore their questions, they don’t listen much anymore.
  5. They don’t understand our language. Many of us almost unknowingly speak in Christian-eze and denominational lingo. Sometimes, even other believers who don’t run in our immediate circles don’t understand us. That makes it hard for anyone to listen to us.
  6. They’re not usually deceived by our sometimes “side door” approaches to evangelism. Learning to bridge a conversation to the gospel is important, but our efforts are at times so forced that they come across as scripted and artificial. That’s one reason why my approach most often now is to ask permission upfront to tell somebody what Jesus means to me.
  7. We “bow up” when they disagree with us. We don’t know how to listen without getting defensive . . . without feeling an immediate need to win our argument when someone disagrees with our position. That approach quickly shuts down a conversation.
  8. We never tell them the good news in the first place. This reason may, in fact, be the primary reason non-believers don’t listen to us. If we never tell them the gospel—and many believers never do—they never even have opportunity to hear us. Listening to us isn’t even an option in those cases.

What reasons would you add to this list?

This article originally appeared here and is used by permission. 

5 Ways to Spot a Skilled Worship Musician

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From the first note to the last, what is played musically in church matters. Music is one of the historically prominent and powerful vehicles for our Christian worship—today as well as in the past. Whether the worship is expressed on a Fender Strat or sung by a choir in full robes, the music matters. Like the beams of a building need competent engineering, the execution of our music leadership requires a skilled worship musician. You can compensate all you want with automated loops, tracks and auto-tuning, but in the end polished bronze is still bronze. Gold is the real thing. Just because something is shiny does not make it valuable or worthy in the long run. Is what we are offering as valuable as we think it is? Good musicianship and the several components that it contains matter.

5 Ways to Spot a Skilled Worship Musician

I was one of those who entered church music and worship leadership without any idea what I was getting into. Basically, in my day the term “worship leader” was not added to the church leader glossary. I did not have the image of anything other than stodgy hymns in the repertoire of the church musician. Sure, there were some gospel songs and hippy-guitar-tunes sung at youth group. And, there was the CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) scene that I briefly thought I should join, but did not. I sang standards as the front man for a big band at age 16. To think of an industry of modern worship as we have it today was not conceivable. Nonetheless, yours truly began leading worship and has lived a life as a professional musician—mostly in the context of Christian music and the local church.

Today, there are schools of worship. There is a mature music industry of Christian music that has a growing and profitable branch called modern worship. I meet younger worship leaders and music leaders who have grown up with the dream and image of leading worship. You can be almost famous and lead worship. In church, you actually have better gear than most night clubs offer. Professional musicians that sacrifice to play in their field would be shocked to see the entitled attitude of some church musicians. You have to be crazy to think that a green room even exists in most places pros play. And if you play for more than 100 people, you are playing for a number larger than what most play for on a regular basis.

So, why is skill in musicianship on the decline in church? Why is it that we are not teaching music to our next generation—theory, technique and performance? YouTube can teach a kid a guitar riff, but music is far deeper than that. Artistry is by far the least thing worship leaders are asked to develop. If it works, we are fine with the lowest common denominator in our music. The roof on the building is one thing. But music is a commodity that we know is going to change rapidly, anyway. So, why invest in musicianship? Why should skill be any more than it needs to be to get the job done?

Just because a church worship leader can copy and paste the latest sounds and mimic the stage words and movements of popular worship leaders, should he or she? We debate and celebrate our distinctives in theology and history as churches, and we should. But do we know how the music we are copying into our house of worship fits these? The trained and skilled musician can write and curate for his or her own church in a way someone who mimics others cannot. Being a professional musician means you understand who you serve—your people. Our culture loves to reverse engineer the unusual successes of the few, while disregarding the consistent healthy practices of the many. Learn much from that conference and the megachurch, but identify that you are not those leaders serving the people they serve. 

Teach Your Church to Help YOU Find Joy in Ministry

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As a pastor for over 43 years, I’ve experienced the ups and downs ministry brings. Sometimes it seems like I’m on an emotional high after a baptism service, a breakthrough elders’ meeting, or a powerful worship service. Other times I’ve had to battle thoughts of giving up when I receive several critical emails in one week, a staff member is consistently underperforming and I need to confront him, or when it seems like the ministry has hit a lid. However, I believe one thing makes a pastor’s job most joyful. See if you agree with me about how to find joy in ministry.

Teach Your Church to Help YOU Find Joy in Ministry

In the most intimate of the Apostle Paul’s New Testament letters, Philippians, he gives us a clue to what can make makes for joy in ministry. He writes this phrase in Philippians 2.16 … in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.

William Barclay explains the meaning of this verse when he says that Paul uses a term for an athlete who trains. No athlete wants his training to fail. He wants to win the race for which he’s training. So, Paul prays that he may not be like an athlete whose training and effort have gone for nothing. For him the greatest prize in life was to know that through him others had come to know and to love and to serve Jesus Christ. [Barclay, W. (Ed.). (1975). The letters to the Philippians, Colossians, and Thessalonians (electronic ed., pp. 45–46). Philadelphia: The Westminster John Knox Press.]

In other words, when Paul came to the end of his life, he would not want his sacrifice and service to have been a waste. He is telling the church at Philippi that they bring him the greatest joy in ministry when they love God and love others well.

Steps to Peace With God? Maybe It’s the Shoes!

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Sometimes I think we have lost the biblical emphasis regarding the gospel being a message of peace, especially peace with God. Toward the end of last century, evangelists often spoke of “how to have peace with God” or “steps to peace with God.” We were taught to ask, “have you made peace with God” and “have you experienced the peace of God in your life?” It often seems one generation’s emphasis is the next generation’s neglect. Has peace, as a facet of the gospel, become familiar, worn, and a hackneyed point of attention?

Peace With God

The prophet writes, “Behold, upon the mountains, the feet of him who brings good news, who publishes peace” (Nah 1:15)! We live in a world that continues to crave peace–with self, others, society, and yes, God. Minds and hearts are greatly troubled. Suicide rates climb. Anxiety, depression, stress, worry, and fear enshroud multitudes.

We really do need peace with God.

10 Fantastic, Practical Tips to Build Your Media Career

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A few years ago, I spoke to a class of film students at a university in Los Angeles, who asked for some tips to build your media career advice before graduation. My friend, award-winning advertising writer David Morgenstern, shared some tips with me for the class that he had given to USC film students a few years earlier, and they were so fantastic I wanted to share them with you.

David Morgenstern’s Tips to Build Your Media Career

1) Return every call and e-mail quickly. Show up on time, even if you’re the only one there. Dress like you deserve your salary. Believe me that will put you ahead of a surprising number of people.

2) Write thank-you notes. Remember birthdays. Remember the assistants, the secretaries, the coordinators, and the mailroom folks. This is a people business. And people never forget how they are treated.

3) Every day, you are placing a brick in the tower of your reputation. Remember, everything you do, big and small, either adds or subtracts from your reputation.

4) Watch what you say in elevators, restrooms, airplanes, and casual conversation. She could be the client’s wife. He could be the boss’s brother. She could be your competitor’s accountant.

5) Don’t care who solves it. Just get it solved.

Jesus and Children: How to Cultivate & Guard Kids’ Love for Jesus

communicating with the unchurched

Jesus and children have always had a special relationship. Why do children love Jesus so much? In the Gospels, it’s clear that kids loved Jesus because He first loved them. Jesus wasn’t posing for future artists when He invited children to gather around him. Actually, He didn’t have to do any coaxing. Children loved Jesus. So did their parents, who were eager for Jesus to bless their children.

jesus with children

Jesus and Children

Like a beloved grandfather, Jesus puts His hands on their heads and prays for them. I can imagine parents reminding their children, “Do you remember when Jesus prayed for you?” What a treasured memory.

It’s said that adults who love children are really kids at heart themselves. That is, they’ve retained the best qualities of childhood.

Although some grownups love to be around kids, some apparently don’t. There’s no question about how Jesus felt.

Jesus Loved to Be With Children

During three years of official ministry, Jesus prioritizes ministry to children. Jesus talks with kids, something only parents and grandparents usually did in that culture. Jesus commends the faith of little children who, in that culture, were sometimes considered incapable and unable to truly embrace religious faith until they were almost teenagers.

Not only that, but Jesus blesses children. He feeds them. He even uses a little boy’s sack lunch to feed the multitudes. Then Jesus sends 12 hefty baskets full of leftovers to help feed others.

Jesus also heals boys and girls who are sick, dying, or demon-possessed. He even resurrects a 12-year-old girl who has just died and an older boy who had died a few hours earlier.

In His preaching and teaching, Jesus says children are a strategic, essential part of His kingdom in heaven and on earth. In so many words, Jesus tells His disciples, “Listen, my kingdom belongs to kids.” Not only that, but Jesus adds, “Unless you become like a little kid, you can’t even get into my kingdom.”

The Bond Between Jesus and Children

What is Jesus talking about? Well, what are kids good at doing? They’re good at receiving. When you’re a young child, your mom and dad give you food. What do you do? You receive it. Your beloved grandparents send you a birthday satchel with five shekels in it. You receive it. God gives you a warm sunny day to go outside and play. You receive it.

The same thing applies to God’s kingdom. Can you work really hard to be part of God’s kingdom? No. Can you be good enough, for long enough, to earn God’s kingdom? Again, no. Can you pay lots of money to be part of God’s kingdom? No. That’s what grownups would try to do. Jesus says, That’s not the way to get into my kingdom. My kingdom isn’t like that at all. To get into my kingdom you have to get down lower—humble yourself—and trust me.

What do you have to do to be part of God’s kingdom? That’s right. You have to receive something. Or, specifically, someone.

Deion Sanders’ Pastor Says, ‘God Is Raising You…To Be a Nehemiah’

deion sanders
Deion Sanders during an inverview in 2022. 7 Figure Squad, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons

Deion Sanders, aka Coach Prime, has the sports world buzzing following his 2-0 start as head football coach for the University of Colorado (CU). The Buffaloes, who were 1-11 last season, upset heavily favored Texas Christian University on Sept. 2 and then beat longtime rival Nebraska the following weekend. Amid all the hype and attention, Sanders continues to praise God and talk openly about his faith.

RELATED: Facing Possible Amputation, CU Coach Deion Sanders Says, ‘I Have Full Trust in Jesus!’

Sanders, the 1990s sports icon known as “Prime Time,” sounds like a preacher while rallying his players. But when it’s time for the coach to be spiritually nurtured, he turns to Dr. E. Dewey Smith, pastor of House of Hope Atlanta. Smith stepped into that role after Sanders’ former spiritual adviser, Bishop Omar Jahwar, died of complications from COVID-19 in March 2021.

“He wants somebody to sharpen him the way he’s been sharpened athletically, with coaches and trainers,” Smith said of Sanders. “He desires the same thing even more spiritually.”

Pastor Says God Called Deion Sanders To ‘Rebuild’ and ‘Fortify’

Smith, who’s been in ministry for 33 years, flew to a Mississippi hospital in fall 2021 when Sanders had surgery for blood clots and almost lost his leg. “His life was on the line,” said Smith. “Fast-forward two years, and here he is now, following his dreams…It warms my heart, man, showing how good God is.” Sanders has had additional surgeries for blood clots, and amputation is still a possibility.

Speaking to an Atlanta TV station, Smith said he told Sanders a couple of years ago, “God is raising you, I believe, to be a Nehemiah. God is calling you to places that seemingly are in ruins to rebuild the city, fortify areas that have been torn down.” At his introductory press conference at CU, Sanders echoed that idea, saying, “When God sends me to a place, he sends me to a place to be a conduit of change.”

Coach Prime has overhauled CU’s football program, bringing in big-name players and attracting recruits. The Buffs are now ranked 18th in the nation.

Sanders received some flak for leaving Jackson State, a historically Black university, to head to the mostly white, wealthy community of Boulder. But he said, “God always calls me to the need. God always calls me somewhere to satisfy needs.”

The next challenge for Sanders, according to Smith, is to be the first Black head coach of a Power 5 team to win a national championship. “People have always loved and respected him for years athletically, and he has a magnetic personality,” the pastor said of Sanders. “He literally believes that all things are possible.” That’s why Smith said he knows “without a shadow of a doubt” that Sanders will “be successful wherever he goes.”

Pastor Under Fire for Claiming Children With Autism Are Demon Oppressed: ‘If It’s Not Demonic, Then We Have To Say God Made Them That Way’

Rick Morrow
Screengrab via YouTube / Beulah Church

A Missouri pastor is under fire for claiming that children living with autism are demon-afflicted. Rick Morrow of Beulah Church in Richland was forced to resign his position as a member of the Stoutland School Board as a result of the comments. 

Morrow’s remarks came in the context of a Wednesday evening service on Sept. 6 that focused on deliverance ministry. 

“If someone has a physical infirmity and you cast that demon out, you might have to pray for some things to be fixed,” Morrow said. “Let’s talk about one. Let’s talk about autism.” 

“I know a minister who has seen lots of kids that are autistic that he cast that demon out and they were healed, and then he had to pray. And their brain was rewired and they were fixed,” Morrow claimed. 

RELATED: Special Needs Ministry: NJ Church Offers a Bit of Heaven on Earth

Morrow then declared, “If it’s not demonic, then we have to say God made them that way,” referring to children on the spectrum.

“Why [does] my kid have autism? Well, either the Devil’s attacked them, he’s brought this infirmity upon them, he’s got them where he wants them, and/or God just doesn’t like them very much and he made them that way,” Morrow said. “Well, my God doesn’t make junk.”

“So let’s quit being nice and putting a bandaid on stuff and giving it medicine,” Morrow went on to say. “How about you just cast the demon out and then treat all the problems?”

In an interview with KY3 following an outcry from community members, particularly those whose own children live with autism, Morrow argued that his comments were misunderstood. However, he still maintains that autism is the result of demonic oppression. 

“Yes, either in, around, or on—somehow, it’s affecting [them],” Morrow said. “And when I say a demon, people want to say, like I said, they want to get that Hollywood description of what a demon is, that it’s this nasty, so ugly—and that’s not the case. It’s just an evil presence. It’s just the presence of evil.”

RELATED: Jackie Hill Perry Warns That Beyoncé’s Music Has a Demonic Influence

Morrow also clarified what he meant when he apparently referred to children with autism as “junk.”

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